SMWS.ca

[MacDeffe]

It's the same company as Ardbeg and Glenmorangie, so maybe they know how to do it ?

Steffen

[Mr Tattie Heid]

I'm not really sure how you can debate this...

I'm not debating anything. I'm saying you're imposing your narrow viewpoint derived from your knowledge of one factor onto the situation, and supposing that's the end of the story. Despite what's been said upthread, you apparently haven't absorbed the way the SMWS has successfully managed to operate in a similar situation in the US--they legally import to each state through that state's distribution network. I technically buy my bottles from a retailer just outside Boston, even though I've never had any direct contact with that retailer, and the bottles are shipped from Florida. My friend in Seattle gets his through the Washington state liquor commission--technically it's an auction, with each order being a tendered bid. Every state has different requirements, and they deal with them.

I don't know how this is going to pan out--it may go nationwide, or it may happen in every province but Ontario, or it may end up being Alberta only, or even collapsing altogether. But saying you know it won't go anywhere outside Alberta because you know that the law forbids Kensington Wine from shipping out of province shows only that you haven't thought of things that the SMWS has. I'm disappointed that they told me that their bottles would be available nationwide when it isn't by any means a done deal yet, but I take the fact that they said that to mean at least that they have some reason to feel optimistic about getting it done.

Short version: they've researched this, and know more than you do. They wouldn't have started down this road otherwise.

[ca_aok]

I didn't say anything about them never expanding, I said currently they can't legally do anything outside Alberta, or if they can they're keeping it a secret for some unknown reason, as are the local distributors in every other province. Which you disputed and still dispute for some reason, based on a vaguely worded email. The SMWS is already well established throughout the states, comparing the two systems when there haven't been any notable inroads anywhere except Alberta is a silly notion. I've stated several times that we'll likely see it nationwide eventually (at a notable price hike depending on liquor taxes), but currently that's not the case.

And the price difference is pretty much set in stone. The duty on personal imports to Alberta is $0.15/oz, or a few dollars for a single bottle, whereas in Ontario after all the fees it works out to be about 100% of the original price. Obviously with the bulk buying power and government mandate those fees are lower for the LCBO, but they never quite seem to pass those savings onto the consumer, at least where liquor is concerned. So unless the LCBO was willing to make an exception, I'd estimate the price at close to $200+/bottle, especially factoring in the fact that they could market these as "rare" or "exclusive" (if they indeed limited it to members only).

Heck, if they were selling cask strength ncf stuff for $100/bottle, there'd never be a reason to buy anything else. Aside from a few small exceptions for really big name malts (Glenlivet 12, Glenfiddich 12, HP 12, etc), $90-100 is the price range for the average youngest whisky in a given distillery's line.

Anyway I'm done arguing, you clearly won't see reason (and I'm not sure why you care at all, if you're in the states).

[Lawrence]

I think Mr. T is correct; if one group of people can figure it out in the USA another group can figure it out here.

Actually they can currently do things outside Alberta (if they had wanted to have started somewhere else) they just can't export from Alberta which nobody suggetsed they do.

Ontario seems to have pots of cask strength whiskies on the shelves currently, no?

[ca_aok]

They can't import anywhere else either, without the explicit permission of the provincial liquor board.

So the questions for me would be:

If they've gotten agreements to sell liquor via the provincial liquor stores, why hasn't it been announced by either party?

If they've decided to go the private member club route, which still involves going through the provincial liquor boards, why isn't this advertised anywhere, and how can they maintain such prices? Assuming they ship from the UK -> Canada, how are they going to maintain prices when taxes and surcharges vary wildly between provinces?

As for cask strength in Ontario, it depends on where you go. There are a few that they seem to keep in stock (Macallan, Springbank come to mind), with more that are one off orders via the Vintages program. I'd say overall the proportion is pretty low, at least at the stores in my town, but it's hard to say for sure. I find it unlikely, however, that they'd price something they can market as rare or exclusive below some of their staple entry level whiskies from some distilleries, that's just not really how they do things. Single cask, cs, ncf stuff is at an extreme premium on the Vintages shelves.

Anyway I've just sent them an email specifically inquiring about all this, so hopefully this will settle this once and for all.

[portwood]

The discussion started out due to the swms implying that the program was currently available nationally - it's NOT - argued by myself and ca_aok.

MrTH and Lawrence pointed out, correctly, that it's possible for them to do so - in the future.

Lawrence pointed out, correctly, that private ordering is already being done in Ontario. Unfortunately this option is not feasible for my income bracket. Furthermore, I'm not aware of any whisky clubs doing this. I would love to be directed to one that is accepting new members.

At this point I know:
- smws membership is available to all Canadians for the princely sum of $230.
- various smws bottles are available for purchase by Canadians living in Alberta and all other Canadians that travel to Alberta and personally take the bottles to their homes in other provinces.
- smws USA has been able to work around the multitude of state regulations and is available to many Americans.
- smws bottles are not available to ME as I do not live in, or travel to, Alberta or the USA.
- everything else regarding the smws Canada, including availability and pricing, outside Alberta is speculation.

As MrTH correctly pointed out: People say all kinds of things they sincerely believe to be true based on their understanding of the situation, which then gets repeated as gospel truth all over the internet, despite the fact that it's nothing more than speculation or hearsay.
With all due respect, the statement applies to MrTH himself.

[Lawrence]

They can't import anywhere else either, without the explicit permission of the provincial liquor board.

Yes, quite correct, why are you so vigorously pointing this out when we all know this to be true??? In the future if they choose to do so they will work within various provincial laws to make it happen...

[Mr Tattie Heid]

I didn't say anything about them never expanding, I said currently they can't legally do anything outside Alberta, or if they can they're keeping it a secret for some unknown reason, as are the local distributors in every other province. Which you disputed and still dispute for some reason...

Ah, no. Sorry you are unable to understand me.

You said it can't be done. I said it can. I didn't say they had achieved it already--obviously they have not.

Anyway I'm done arguing, you clearly won't see reason....

I was just going to say the same....

As MrTH correctly pointed out: People say all kinds of things they sincerely believe to be true based on their understanding of the situation, which then gets repeated as gospel truth all over the internet, despite the fact that it's nothing more than speculation or hearsay.
With all due respect, the statement applies to MrTH himself.

If I have done that, please point out where. I try to be careful about repeating what I've been told. In this case, for example, I have said repeatedly "this is what the SMWS has told me."

[ca_aok]

I said nothing about it can't be done. I said it can't be done as the system currently stands, with the KWM as their only distributor. You, on the other hand, said plenty which either implies or directly states that you currently believe their products are available nationwide, and specifically claimed you were discussing the present, not the future.

I assume the conversation with the LCBO and the SAQ and the relevant federal authorities has long been settled--not anything for you and me to worry about. I'm sure they crossed their eyes and dotted their teas.

Lawrence wrote:...so currently as we all know their product is only available in Alberta.

Now how would we all know that? They told me point-blank the whisky would be "available nationwide", no quailifiers.

Yes, there is. They said flatly the whisky would be available nationwide. They did not say "at some time in the future." They said "Yes, the whisky will be available nationwide." Period. That is not even implying, that is a statement of fact, which is either true or false.

Continue backtracking, this will all be sorted soon.

[Lawrence]

I said nothing about it can't be done. I said it can't be done as the system currently stands.

Yup, we know that.

Yawn.

[Mr Tattie Heid]

I said nothing about it can't be done. I said it can't be done as the system currently stands, with the KWM as their only distributor. You, on the other hand, said plenty which either implies or directly states that you currently believe their products are available nationwide, and specifically claimed you were discussing the present, not the future.

I assume the conversation with the LCBO and the SAQ and the relevant federal authorities has long been settled--not anything for you and me to worry about. I'm sure they crossed their eyes and dotted their teas.

Lawrence wrote:...so currently as we all know their product is only available in Alberta.

Now how would we all know that? They told me point-blank the whisky would be "available nationwide", no quailifiers.

Yes, there is. They said flatly the whisky would be available nationwide. They did not say "at some time in the future." They said "Yes, the whisky will be available nationwide." Period. That is not even implying, that is a statement of fact, which is either true or false.

Continue backtracking, this will all be sorted soon.

It can certainly done "as the system stands." There is nothing systemically constitutional about KWM being their sole agent, any more than whatever liquor store in Boston it is that sends me mine is systemically the agent for the whole USA. KWM is the agent for Alberta. There will be other arrangements in other provinces, or at least that is the intent. How close any of those arrangements are to being made is anyone's guess, at this point. It would surprise me if they hadn't already done a fair amount of legwork in that regard--why enter the Canadian market, call yourselves the SMWSCA, and tell interested parties that the whisky will be available nationwide, if you don't already have some reasonable expectation that it can be achieved?--but I've been surprised before.

Yes, I made a false assumption based on what I was told. I took what they told me in good faith, until I had better information, which came from Lawrence (and not from your own uninformed opinions). I trust Lawrence's information, but was annoyed at the disconnect between what "we all know" and what I'd been told directly by the SMWS. You've completely misunderstood my motivation there. We didn't all know it, because we'd been told something else, by the very people who are the only ones who really know what's going on. What they told me was false, or at least misleading, and I wish for them to be accountable for that. Why would they wish to give interested parties misleading information?

I think I've been very clear that when I was making an assumption, I labeled it an assumption, which can be taken for what it's worth (we all know what happens when you assume), and when I was repeating what I was told, I labeled it as what I was told. You also made assumptions, but stated them as fact, when you really didn't know the full situation. You can't have, because none of us do yet.

And now I hereby assert that this is the stupidest argument ever (which the popcorn-eating rest of the forum will probably have decided long ago), because we both agree on what the situation is, so far as we have been informed. Cheers.

[Pete Smoke]

And now I hereby assert that this is the stupidest argument ever (which the popcorn-eating rest of the forum will probably have decided long ago)

It's certainly up there with the best of 'em.

[Mr Tattie Heid]

Thank you.

[C57]

Another bag of popcorn please.

[Mr Tattie Heid]

How about a G&M Cask Old Pulteney first-fill sherry? Is that close enough? Do you think Murray would pin a medal on that one?

(Actually, Willie had one of these last night, and I had a wee taste--no burnt popcorn there, so obviously it varies from cask to cask.)

[Lawrence]

I forgot about the popcorn.

[Pudge72]

Another bag of popcorn please.

C57, can you add a popcorn-eating smiley and an applause smiley to the options menu to the of the 'compose message' screen ? They both would have been put to good use multiple times over the past couple of months...just an idea.

[C57]

I can't, though Mark could if he chose

[Pete Smoke]

[Rogerdodger]

Wish I had something hallway intelligent to add. I don't.

[Mr Tattie Heid]

That never stopped anyone.

[IrishCanadian]

I bought a membership today - the fee was harsh. It made the decision easier in light of the value I placed on the bottles that I purchased.

[Lawrence]

A decision you will not regret, there have been some great bottlings released in the last few months and only a few weeks until the December list comes out.

[Gordon_H]

Does the $250/$120 include the award winning Magazine as well ? It makes all the difference you know.....
And if you are really lucky they'll send you some Sulphured Whisky as well !

I was talking to someone about this and their conclusion was "great ,another place to narrow the number of bottles available from a cask down" . Not my opinion i hasten to add....

[portwood]

I was talking to someone about this and their conclusion was "great ,another place to narrow the number of bottles available from a cask down" . Not my opinion i hasten to add....

Look on the bright side, maybe they'll send all the sulphured whisky to Canada and you get to keep all the good stuff.