Whisky Whisky Whisky Forum Forum

by **Zunak** » 04 Mar 2011, 18:49

There has been quite a bit of discussion in other posts regarding deals in the US so I thought I'd start a new post to cover it.

by **Zunak** » 04 Mar 2011, 18:57

Got a very unpleasant surprise when I went to the States to get gas this morning. Duty free has raised the price of Ardbeg 10 $11 from $48 to $59. It is still cheaper to buy it there with the dollar at par but just marginally. Duty is $45 so total cost is $104 $4 more than the LCBO price but 1 Litre as opposed to 750ml now if you factor in the gas savins of $20 it becomes well worth it. I got a 10% off frequent buyer card after whining about the price increase so it was a little less painful.

by **portwood** » 04 Mar 2011, 20:57

How is the duty/tax calculated?

by **dbk** » 04 Mar 2011, 22:38

portwood wrote:How is the duty/tax calculated?

With a magic wand, unfortunately.

I've found duty to be somewhere between 70 and 80% of the price of the bottle. But that depends on the category of whisky the customs agents choose in the system—Bourbon, for instance, has a different default ABV in their system than, say, Scotch, and they charge accordingly. The more expensive the whisky, the higher the ABV, and the larger the size (1 L vs. 750 mL vs. 700 mL), the more expensive the duty. All of this, of course, further depends on how thorough (and generous) the customs agents are, both at the gate and inside the terminal, and how forthcoming you are.

by **mongo** » 04 Mar 2011, 23:15

i'm never moving to canada.

by **portwood** » 05 Mar 2011, 00:45

dbk wrote:
portwood wrote:How is the duty/tax calculated?

With a magic wand, unfortunately.

Despite my joking that Ontario is a socialist state when it comes to liquor, last I checked, our democratically elected gov cannot apply laws arbitrarily.

Since every citizen is expected to know the law, there must be some document(s) available from some government department(s) that spells out the formula/rates to be used. Does anyone know where to get this info?

by **Nabil** » 05 Mar 2011, 02:05

Officially the duty on single malts runs around 95% of wholesale price. This was calculated for me by Canada Customs.

Now, it is important to stress that the Duty Free on the American side is NOT always the same thing as on the Canadian side. For instance, crossing to NY from the Canadian side, Lagavulin runs about 84$ if not more...now I can get it in Watertown for around 71$!!! That's right, duty free is not always duty free. On the Canadian side, they figure that if it's lower than the LCBO, then the Canadian marks will fall for it. How about this one...Wiser's 18 yo at the LCBO 50$ CDN...at the Canadian side Duty Free: 42$!!! WTF!!?? That's not duty free! 8 $ is the duty!?

On the other hand, Ardbeg 1 L on the american side is still 48$ CDN. Ardmore TC 44$. Macallan 1L 50$

NEVER shop on the Canadian side! :evil:

by **Zunak** » 05 Mar 2011, 05:04

Nabil wrote:Officially the duty on single malts runs around 95% of wholesale price. This was calculated for me by Canada Customs.

Now, it is important to stress that the Duty Free on the American side is NOT always the same thing as on the Canadian side. For instance, crossing to NY from the Canadian side, Lagavulin runs about 84$ if not more...now I can get it in Watertown for around 71$!!! That's right, duty free is not always duty free. On the Canadian side, they figure that if it's lower than the LCBO, then the Canadian marks will fall for it. How about this one...Wiser's 18 yo at the LCBO 50$ CDN...at the Canadian side Duty Free: 42$!!! WTF!!?? That's not duty free! 8 $ is the duty!?

On the other hand, Ardbeg 1 L on the american side is still 48$ CDN. Ardmore TC 44$. Macallan 1L 50$

NEVER shop on the Canadian side!

Actually dbk`s post was more accurate regarding duty and taxes, ABV, amount, and type of alcohol all factor in when calculating duty and taxes (my nephew works for customs and I regularly have him check bring back prices for me). 95% is a good quick calculation for scotch however but it`s really closer to 87%. I presume you did not thoroughly read my previous post and I hate to burst your bubble but......Ardbeg 10 1L is now $59 at Duty Free Americas, just jumped $11 from $48 2 weeks ago. If it`s still $48 where you are, you better hurry and get one. Agreed.... NEVER SHOP AT DUTY FREE GOING INTO THE STATES....... ALWAYS SHOP IN THE US COMING BACK TO CANADA.

by **dbk** » 05 Mar 2011, 17:33

portwood wrote:
dbk wrote:
portwood wrote:How is the duty/tax calculated?

With a magic wand, unfortunately.

Despite my joking that Ontario is a socialist state when it comes to liquor, last I checked, our democratically elected gov cannot apply laws arbitrarily.

Since every citizen is expected to know the law, there must be some document(s) available from some government department(s) that spells out the formula/rates to be used. Does anyone know where to get this info?

True enough. Nonetheless, Canada Customs collects for the province, not just for the nation. This is why "duty" in ON, QC, BC, and AB, all differ from one another—the provincial markup fee varies considerably. I'm certain that the amounts are written down somewhere, but I don't know if they're publicly available without contacting some agency (e.g. Canada Customs).

Here's a breakdown of a recent purchase of mine. I paid "duty" on 5.25 litres of whisky, the value of which (in CDN $) was $559.74. (Don't judge me.) The whisky was charged as "whiskey/scotch." Taxes (GST/HST) were $74.96, duty (i.e. federal) was $25.56, and the provincial liquor mark-up fee was $350.00. All of this amounted to $450.52, or 80.1% of the cost of the purchase. Having written this down, I am now quite nauseated.

If someone can track down the pay schedules for markup, etc., that would be very good to know. So far, I've seen nothing of the sort published online.

by **Zunak** » 05 Mar 2011, 19:38

dbk wrote:True enough. Nonetheless, Canada Customs collects for the province, not just for the nation. This is why "duty" in ON, QC, BC, and AB, all differ from one another—the provincial markup fee varies considerably. I'm certain that the amounts are written down somewhere, but I don't know if they're publicly available without contacting some agency (e.g. Canada Customs).

Here's a breakdown of a recent purchase of mine. I paid "duty" on 5.25 litres of whisky, the value of which (in CDN $) was $559.74. (Don't judge me.) The whisky was charged as "whiskey/scotch." Taxes (GST/HST) were $74.96, duty (i.e. federal) was $25.56, and the provincial liquor mark-up fee was $350.00. All of this amounted to $450.52, or 80.1% of the cost of the purchase. Having written this down, I am now quite nauseated.

If someone can track down the pay schedules for markup, etc., that would be very good to know. So far, I've seen nothing of the sort published online.

I once found all of the information (in legalise of course) on a government website. Damn should have bookmarked it. The LCBO component is 59.9% of the purchase price in Canadian $ + the duty. In your case $559.74 + $25.56 = $585.30 x 59.9% = $350.59. However there is a cap on the LCBO portion of the tax which is between $40 and $60 (if my memory serves me correctly). Unfortunately for you dbk since you brought back several bottles (although fortunate to have several bottles) you may have only hit the cap on the most expensive bottle, or not at all, as they are all charged individually. If you had one bottle at $559 it would have looked more like this $60 LCBO (if memory serves me correctly) + $25.56 + $74.96 = $160.52. The cap may be less than $60 but I used it as the worst possible scenario. Can anyone out there who purchased a big ticket bottle, and paid duty and taxes, confirm this?

by **Nabil** » 05 Mar 2011, 20:41

Zunak wrote:
Nabil wrote:Officially the duty on single malts runs around 95% of wholesale price. This was calculated for me by Canada Customs.

Now, it is important to stress that the Duty Free on the American side is NOT always the same thing as on the Canadian side. For instance, crossing to NY from the Canadian side, Lagavulin runs about 84$ if not more...now I can get it in Watertown for around 71$!!! That's right, duty free is not always duty free. On the Canadian side, they figure that if it's lower than the LCBO, then the Canadian marks will fall for it. How about this one...Wiser's 18 yo at the LCBO 50$ CDN...at the Canadian side Duty Free: 42$!!! WTF!!?? That's not duty free! 8 $ is the duty!?

On the other hand, Ardbeg 1 L on the american side is still 48$ CDN. Ardmore TC 44$. Macallan 1L 50$

NEVER shop on the Canadian side!

Actually dbk`s post was more accurate regarding duty and taxes, ABV, amount, and type of alcohol all factor in when calculating duty and taxes (my nephew works for customs and I regularly have him check bring back prices for me). 95% is a good quick calculation for scotch however but it`s really closer to 87%. I presume you did not thoroughly read my previous post and I hate to burst your bubble but......Ardbeg 10 1L is now $59 at Duty Free Americas, just jumped $11 from $48 2 weeks ago. If it`s still $48 where you are, you better hurry and get one. Agreed.... NEVER SHOP AT DUTY FREE GOING INTO THE STATES....... ALWAYS SHOP IN THE US COMING BACK TO CANADA.

Don't worry Zunak, there isn't a lot in my bubble anyway!

As for the Ardbeg...I'm heading down to Florida this Friday, so I'll check at the 1000 Islands crossing. 48$ was ridiculously low for 1 L to begin with! Even at 59$, the 1 L is a steal when you factor in the volume.

As for the Duty question, it may be 80, 87, or 95%, but it all works out to nearly doubling the price. I was talking to a CCRC officer regarding our import of our Bruichladdich cask in 2014. We'll be bringing it in via a lower tax jurisdiction anyway. I see absolutely no point in paying duty, I'd rather plan my travel carefully and pay no duty!
:iwbrnt:

Nabil

by **Zunak** » 05 Mar 2011, 21:01

Nabil wrote:
Zunak wrote:
Nabil wrote:Officially the duty on single malts runs around 95% of wholesale price. This was calculated for me by Canada Customs.

Now, it is important to stress that the Duty Free on the American side is NOT always the same thing as on the Canadian side. For instance, crossing to NY from the Canadian side, Lagavulin runs about 84$ if not more...now I can get it in Watertown for around 71$!!! That's right, duty free is not always duty free. On the Canadian side, they figure that if it's lower than the LCBO, then the Canadian marks will fall for it. How about this one...Wiser's 18 yo at the LCBO 50$ CDN...at the Canadian side Duty Free: 42$!!! WTF!!?? That's not duty free! 8 $ is the duty!?

On the other hand, Ardbeg 1 L on the american side is still 48$ CDN. Ardmore TC 44$. Macallan 1L 50$

NEVER shop on the Canadian side!

Actually dbk`s post was more accurate regarding duty and taxes, ABV, amount, and type of alcohol all factor in when calculating duty and taxes (my nephew works for customs and I regularly have him check bring back prices for me). 95% is a good quick calculation for scotch however but it`s really closer to 87%. I presume you did not thoroughly read my previous post and I hate to burst your bubble but......Ardbeg 10 1L is now $59 at Duty Free Americas, just jumped $11 from $48 2 weeks ago. If it`s still $48 where you are, you better hurry and get one. Agreed.... NEVER SHOP AT DUTY FREE GOING INTO THE STATES....... ALWAYS SHOP IN THE US COMING BACK TO CANADA.

Don't worry Zunak, there isn't a lot in my bubble anyway!

As for the Ardbeg...I'm heading down to Florida this Friday, so I'll check at the 1000 Islands crossing. 48$ was ridiculously low for 1 L to begin with! Even at 59$, the 1 L is a steal when you factor in the volume.

As for the Duty question, it may be 80, 87, or 95%, but it all works out to nearly doubling the price. I was talking to a CCRC officer regarding our import of our Bruichladdich cask in 2014. We'll be bringing it in via a lower tax jurisdiction anyway. I see absolutely no point in paying duty, I'd rather plan my travel carefully and pay no duty!

Nabil

If you are purchasing the Ardbeg at a "Duty Free Americas" store do like I did and whine and cry about the price increase till they give you a 10% off frequent buyer card... :lol:

by **Zunak** » 06 Mar 2011, 18:11

Zunak wrote:
dbk wrote:True enough. Nonetheless, Canada Customs collects for the province, not just for the nation. This is why "duty" in ON, QC, BC, and AB, all differ from one another—the provincial markup fee varies considerably. I'm certain that the amounts are written down somewhere, but I don't know if they're publicly available without contacting some agency (e.g. Canada Customs).

Here's a breakdown of a recent purchase of mine. I paid "duty" on 5.25 litres of whisky, the value of which (in CDN $) was $559.74. (Don't judge me.) The whisky was charged as "whiskey/scotch." Taxes (GST/HST) were $74.96, duty (i.e. federal) was $25.56, and the provincial liquor mark-up fee was $350.00. All of this amounted to $450.52, or 80.1% of the cost of the purchase. Having written this down, I am now quite nauseated.

If someone can track down the pay schedules for markup, etc., that would be very good to know. So far, I've seen nothing of the sort published online.

I once found all of the information (in legalise of course) on a government website. Damn should have bookmarked it. The LCBO component is 59.9% of the purchase price in Canadian $ + the duty. In your case $559.74 + $25.56 = $585.30 x 59.9% = $350.59. However there is a cap on the LCBO portion of the tax which is between $40 and $60 (if my memory serves me correctly). Unfortunately for you dbk since you brought back several bottles (although fortunate to have several bottles) you may have only hit the cap on the most expensive bottle, or not at all, as they are all charged individually. If you had one bottle at $559 it would have looked more like this $60 LCBO (if memory serves me correctly) + $25.56 + $74.96 = $160.52. The cap may be less than $60 but I used it as the worst possible scenario. Can anyone out there who purchased a big ticket bottle, and paid duty and taxes, confirm this?

Sorry to be the bearer of misinformation but my quoted post was incorrect. THERE IS NO CAP on the Provincial Liquor Markup Fee. My previous calculations for dbk's single bottle scenario are incorrect. It would have cost the same amount as multiple bottles. Sorry ... I was certain I had read it somewhere but must have confused it with some other markup value. I had my nephew run several bottle costs through the CBSA Casual Goods Accounting Document program today and the mark-up fee kept increasing with bottle price. Damn.

by **Zunak** » 14 Mar 2011, 22:04

ATTENION ALL US MARCH BREAK TRAVELLERS.....Laphroaig 10 1L on sale at Duty Free Americas Rainbow Bridge. Regular price $44 currently 25% off sooooo..... $33US/Can (they take Canadian @ par if you don't have US). Duty and taxes $31.50 Can. Total $64.50 Savings $20. They had a few, maybe 6 or more. Might be at all Duty Free Americas locations call ahead and check.

BTW dbk the George T Staggs are all gone..... have you been shopping stateside without telling me :lol:

.

by **dbk** » 15 Mar 2011, 01:18

Zunak wrote:BTW dbk the George T Staggs are all gone..... have you been shopping stateside without telling me .

Not my fault, I swear! I'm glad I have a few bottles of the Stagg, but I'm sorry others have to miss out on it. That said, you're welcome to a taste any time, Zunak!

by **Zunak** » 20 Mar 2011, 14:01

Just thought I'd move this posting to the thread it belongs in. Thanks for this amazing info Nabil.
http://www.lcbapps.lcb.state.pa.us/weba ... cdeNo=3042

by **Zunak** » 20 Apr 2011, 22:36

Hows this for a kick in the "you know whats" :-o

....Laphroaig 18 in Penn... $59.99 Sale Price: $54.99. DBK up for another road trip???

by **dbk** » 20 Apr 2011, 23:18

Pennsylvania's a long way to go for a bottle, but you have me tempted, Zunak!

by **Zunak** » 20 Apr 2011, 23:55

dbk wrote::D
Pennsylvania's a long way to go for a bottle, but you have me tempted, Zunak!

2 hours 4 mins from my door to the store

by **portwood** » 21 Apr 2011, 00:35

dbk wrote::D
Pennsylvania's a long way to go for a bottle, but you have me tempted, Zunak!

I would love to get my hands on a bottle, but Penn is a loooooooong way from Markham. Since I will not shell out $180, unless zunak picks up an extra one,

the closest I will get is a 1/4oz sample at Summerhill tomorrow. :lol:

by **Zunak** » 27 May 2011, 09:58

I have 2 bottles of Laphroaig 18 being dropped off at my place today by a friend who is bringing them back from Penn. Still $59.95 + 6% tax. I don't know how or why Pennsylvania is the cheapest place in North America to buy this product but I'm certainly glad I could take advantage of it. Many thanks to Nabil for discovering and posting the pricing on this one.

by **Nabil** » 27 May 2011, 12:39

Zunak wrote:I have 2 bottles of Laphroaig 18 being dropped off at my place today by a friend who is bringing them back from Penn. Still $59.95 + 6% tax. I don't know how or why Pennsylvania is the cheapest place in North America to buy this product but I'm certainly glad I could take advantage of it. Many thanks to Nabil for discovering and posting the pricing on this one.

No need to thank me, really.

Just send me a sample!

(I'm kidding, I'm swimming in whisky)

by **bebdo** » 27 May 2011, 14:47

Shoppers Vineyard - includes (1) Ardbeg 10yr, (1) Ardbeg Uigeadail and (1) Ardbeg Corryvreckan.

, followed by ... I'm going to cry now!

by **CK_** » 27 May 2011, 19:39

Here are some shots I took at a place called Total Wine in Florida. Almost Costco in size and they carry beer, wine, spirits and cigars. Thought you guys might get I kick out of some of their prices. :lol:

I brought back three nice bottles for myself. I was able to find an L6 and L7 bottle of Ardbeg 10. And I picked up a Bunnahabhain 12.

by **bebdo** » 27 May 2011, 19:48

Van Winkle 12, Bowmore 12, Ardmore, some prices are not far off. But for Ardbeg for whatever reason there seems to be a big spread - The Corry was like $179 here and they SV can have Corry. Oggie & 10yr for $175??
I picked up these 3 Ardbeg when I went on a trip to NJ last yr.

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