Edradour goes Diageo?

[an donas]

Just back from a wee trip south and north to several distilleries. A good few days was had.

Was dissappointed though in some visits. Edradour now charges £5 - not just for the tour, but for the privilege of setting foot on their premises! Spoke to some locals and one employee who werent' too pleased with the way Edradour is going. Blinded by greed, it would seem. Shame as their tasting bar is a goldmine.

Some of the Diageo tours too are just too clinical - everything is pristine and fenced off. Blair Athol is like this as is Dalwhinnie. Shame to hear of BA and Edradour bitching about each other in front of visitors too.

Best experiences were Bladnoch, Glendronach and Glen Garioch. Lochnagar was surprisingly good too.

Have started a whisky only blog to record my thoughts on these. Would look forward to hearing any comments on the above. Even an explanation/ defence of Edradours new charge would be interesting!

http://macnabracha.blogspot.com/2010/04 ... adour.html

[Mr Tattie Heid]

Probably because they're in a busy tourist town (Pitlochry) and get too many casuals just wandering in.

[vitara7]

thats a bit of a poof show, charging you a fiver just to get onto the place id say.

i done the tour there a few years ago, but everytime im in pitlochry i pop into the place simply to go to the shop and see if they have anything that takes my fancy, half the time i leave with a bottle or two.

now, im sure there are others who do this, go to the distillery, but dont do the tour. how many of these folk will pay £5 to simply go to the shop (you may get this £5 if you buy a bottle) but if your only buying 50% of the time or browsing, i think theyll feel the pinch eventully.

im actually up in pitlochry on monday on work and would have popped in like normal, rather glad i red this posting, saves me the fruitless trip up from the twon, and a fiver too.

never mind, im sure robertsons will welcome the extra money ill be spending in their shop, and not being charged £5 for walking in the door, i wonder just how much it will effect edradour and boost robertsons in the long run.

[an donas]

Yeah, a friend takes groups of foreign whisky lovers there a few times a year and at least half of them leave with at least one bottle of Edradour or one of the Signatory bottlings.

As you say, Robertsons in Atholl Road doesn't charge £5 for the pleasure of spending money in their shop. Robertsons also has friendly local staff and a superb selection of malts at reasonable prices. It'll be my first stop when next in Pitlochry.

[Willie JJ]

I think its fair to say that Edradour had a problem. They are on the tourist route and for years haven't charged for tours. This has meant that they have been getting 100,000 visitors a year. Fantastic you might think, but in reality the vast majority of these people had no interest in whisky and were just on one of the bus tours that roll around the highlands. The folk at Edradour were giving a small dram to each of these so 1cl x 100,000 means that they were giving away 1000l of whisky a year and employing a host of multilingual tour guides to handle the crowds with very limited returns in terms of shop sales. It also made it very difficult for them to give a good experience to the genuine whisky fan. I know that they have been considering what to do about this problem for a long time.

That said, the solution you describe seems to have gone to the other extreme and you don't seem to have got a particularly good experience for your £5. I haven't been up there since last year and now I'm curious to go and find out what's going on.

[Mr Tattie Heid]

If they've gone too far, they'll sort it out eventually. Obviously, you do want the people who want to visit to be able to do so. Cutting out the enormous casual traffic ought to go a long way toward making the experience better for the enthusiast.

[laddie teun]

Willie is right. I visited Edradour last year and spoke with Andrew. They just get way to many tourists. Busses full of them. Charging people, they know will get them a lot less visitors. But the ones that are visiting will be people actually interested in Edradour.

[Malt-Teaser]

But it would seem logical (to me) that they should charge for the tour, not for entry to the premises. That way they would still get some shop sales and then the fee from those wanting a tour.

[Nick Brown]

Charging people, they know will get them a lot less visitors. But the ones that are visiting will be people actually interested in Edradour.

I'm not sure it will. Most of their visitors are coach parties and they'll still come - it's just that each ticket on the coach tour will cost an extra fiver. Coaches want a distillery and they have a choice of Blair Atholl, Aberfeldy, Edradour or Glen Turret. I guess they'll still distribute themselves around the four of choice.

But it would seem logical (to me) that they should charge for the tour, not for entry to the premises. That way they would still get some shop sales and then the fee from those wanting a tour.

Yes, but the way the site is set up, the shop is at the heart of the site and you pass the still house to get there. Free access to the shop might make it hard to charge for entry in practice. I'm guessing that they might end up changing the layout a bit in due course.

[Mr Tattie Heid]

Charging the tour companies £5 a head--£200 or so a busload--will weed out a lot of them, maybe nearly all of them if there are other options. Tour companies are always looking to shave costs and get something for nothing. I could tell you some stories. That said, it wouldn't surprise me if buses were already charged for the privilege of visiting, even when individuals aren't.

[an donas]

Interesting points. I do agree that some charge, for the tour, would be appropriate. But not charging to enter a bar or especially a shop. My partner organises two kinds of tours - one for the whisky beginner and one for conossieurs. The beginners wouldn't mind spending something for an experience and a standard dram but not too much. The connossieurs aren't really interested in the basic tour - they know the standard process. They're the kind who DO spend in the shop and tasting bar anyway.

Edradour do stand to lose some first time whisky fans though. The local hostel and B&Bs used to send folk there. They won't now, if they are charge £5 for the 'experience' of visiting a tiny distillery with nothing added thrown in, then they won't go.

My partner is certainly weighing up the benefits. For a lesser charge, her tourists could get a better and cheaper experience at Bladnoch if they want to see a small distillery. The welcome at Bladnoch is also friendlier in my experience.

[Mr Tattie Heid]

No place to park a bus, though....

[Peat Sampras]

Coaches want a distillery and they have a choice of Blair Atholl, Aberfeldy, Edradour or Glen Turret. I guess they'll still distribute themselves around the four of choice.

Interesting topic. I've visited the Perthshire in November, i.e. off tourist season, on my own. And I don't do tours, being not so comfortable having other people around me who ask stupid questions. This kinda ruins my stay at a beautiful place so I prefer sneaking around on my own with the risk of not being able to see much of the inside of a distillery. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I do buy stuff though, if I get a chance to.

My impression of the Perthshire Distilleries mentioned by Nick Brown:

Blair Athol was an exemple of where I didn't see much of the distillery itself as everything was closed. You only can go check the stillroom and so on when on the tour. The visitor center is interesting if not very welcoming. Sterile is the word others used for Diageo visitor centers and it's the one that springs to mind at Blair Athol. Staff didn't give a f*çk about us. We felt as if we had to be grateful to be allowed to enter the distillery courtyard and take a photo of the famous ivy facade. They didn't seem to bother to sell some of their produce so I didn't. Disappointing...

Edradour sure is a diamond and in November, we weren't charged a buck for entering the premises. Great for sneaking around it is, I peeped into some rooms and wandered around. When looking into the stillroom (not entering it), I was harshly put in my place by what I guess was the Stillwoman. After some explaining she let me take a picture though... Not very welcoming, again... I still bought some bottles at the shop, it's too tempting with all those cool signatory bottlings.

Aberfeldy is a real gem as well. Beautiful setting, clean and beautiful buildings even if it is a real working distillery with heavy outturn being Dewar's heartpiece. We could freely walk around, peep into the buildings and take pictures without being interrupted once even if dudes were working, lorries coming and going. The staff were very friendly and agreed to engrave a bottle of the 12yo on the spot even if normally, they don't. There were very few people around.

Glenturret is most idyllic as well, and we could also walk around on the premises quite freely. The visitor center was horror. Even on a rainy november day with the night about to fall, it was totally crowded and packed with all kinds of tourists, most of them without the slightest clue. Staff were very cool and friendly although the folk around.

Of all these, Aberfeldy was my favourite for obvious reasons.

[Mr Tattie Heid]

To tell the truth, I'm surprised that any distillery's staff wouldn't be unfriendly to someone sneaking around the plant unescorted.

[Nick Brown]

My partner is certainly weighing up the benefits. For a lesser charge, her tourists could get a better and cheaper experience at Bladnoch if they want to see a small distillery. The welcome at Bladnoch is also friendlier in my experience.

Most of the tourists at Edradour are not there because they are interested in small distilleries - they are here because their coach trip to the Highlands includes a distillery visit on the way back. Bladnoch is in the wrong place to get that trade.

[Peat Sampras]

To tell the truth, I'm surprised that any distillery's staff wouldn't be unfriendly to someone sneaking around the plant unescorted.

I agree, but there are such beautiful minds who don't bother. Best example was BenRiach. I walked around the place and the guard just took notice of my presence without asking questions. The workers even greeted me friendly and continued their work.

Ben Nevis was also cool, the stillman just told me not to smoke near the still room because of the toxic fumes that might blow up the place, but in a friendly manner

In a general matter, distilleries without visitor center seem to be cooler about people sneaking around because they don't lose £££ for people not going on the tour.

As surprising it may seem but there are still some cool people around. E.g. Ian at Glen Scotia who showed us around for free, the staff at Aberlour giving us a ride from visitor center to warehouse 1 in his car (it's about 200 meters walk ) and doing a private tasting there between two tours, taking their time. I don't expect that kind of treatment but when I get it I'm the more grateful. If people send me off, I'll go, no problem.

[Pete Smoke]

To tell the truth, I'm surprised that any distillery's staff wouldn't be unfriendly to someone sneaking around the plant unescorted.

Thinking about it - you could walk around the grounds of any company of any kind carrying a notepad and pen and everyone there would assume you were there in some official capacity. All you need is a notepad and pen, some smart trousers and an air of confidence and your in, maybe this happened with Peat at times. Peat, you should have demanded some samples 'to take back to the office' - it might have worked!

Edit: In light of future posts can i state for the record i am not being serious in any way shape or form. To behave in this manner is simply unacceptable.

[an donas]

My partner is certainly weighing up the benefits. For a lesser charge, her tourists could get a better and cheaper experience at Bladnoch if they want to see a small distillery. The welcome at Bladnoch is also friendlier in my experience.

Most of the tourists at Edradour are not there because they are interested in small distilleries - they are here because their coach trip to the Highlands includes a distillery visit on the way back. Bladnoch is in the wrong place to get that trade.

Agree that's the case. Though the tours my partner takes have a maximum of 16 and most are interested in whisky. Bladnoch is unfortunately not on the Highland route but for a whisky tour organiser wanting to show interested aficianados a small distillery and a different part of Scotland, Bladnoch is very attractive.

It seems as if Edradour think of themselves as a club now. Fair enough but they will lose a good few interested buyers.

This reminds me of the SMWS debate. Why pay increasing prices at SMWS when you can get similar quality at the likes of Cadenheads?

[Malt-Teaser]

This reminds me of the SMWS debate. Why pay increasing prices at SMWS when you can get similar quality at the likes of Cadenheads?

Nor have Cadenheads (to my knowledge) started using stupid names for their bottlings.

[DavidUK]

This is all most disappointing as my girlfriend and I were very much looking forward to visiting Edradour in July en route to Speyside. Both of us are interested in whisky and intend to visit Aberlour,Craggenmore and maybe Glenlivet and Balvennie in Speyside.

It's not so much the £5 that might put us off(is this refunded against any purchase?) but from what I've read Edradour is always packed with tourists and the tours are reported nothing special as a result. As whisky enthusiasts we'd much prefer a more intimate experience so if anyone could recommend some more welcoming distilleries I'd appreciate it

[an donas]

Aberlour has a good crit from my partner - several drams including spirit in order of age.

Tomintoul too took the small group everywhere in the distillery.

As to Edradour, aye the tour aint much, certainly not worth a fiver. The tasting bar is good but again, i don't think its worth a fiver entrance fee.

[Peat Sampras]

Thinking about it - you could walk around the grounds of any company of any kind carrying a notepad and pen and everyone there would assume you were there in some official capacity. All you need is a notepad and pen, some smart trousers and an air of confidence and your in, maybe this happened with Peat at times. Peat, you should have demanded some samples 'to take back to the office' - it might have worked!

With a good dose of self confidence you enter almost everywhere (like the dudes who entered white house in an official dinner of Barack Obama).

But that's not the thing I'm trying to do when visiting distilleries. I want to "feel" the place, the "vibes" of the place. Ok, to set this straight, I'm no muesli-eating birkenstock-wearing hippie but I just like to get an image of the premises, the setting, the architecture, the overall picture of where the dram comes from. I don't care too much on how big the stills are and how many gallons they haul out at the end of the day, even if these technical facts interest me as well. But I can get them on internet or in the whisky yearbook. Ok, I can also check out the distilleries on street view but it's not the same thing. So, when I check out the "vibes" of a place and then a staff member comes yelling at me telling to bugger off, this kinda influences the "vibes" in a negative way.

If the whisky they make is good, I'll still buy it, but that's not the point really...

Edradour is so beautiful, it's worth the visit anyway, by the way....

[Nick Brown]

Ok, I can also check out the distilleries on street view but it's not the same thing. So, when I check out the "vibes" of a place and then a staff member comes yelling at me telling to bugger off, this kinda influences the "vibes" in a negative way.

If the whisky they make is good, I'll still buy it, but that's not the point really...

I'm afraid I think that walking around a distillery as an uninvited guest is extremely rude and given that they are factories preparing comestible products, I'd say it's a serious security breach. There are also health and safety issues - both for your own safety and for the safety of distillery staff.

Out of interest, why don't you just ask for permission?

[Peat Sampras]

I'm afraid I think that walking around a distillery as an uninvited guest is extremely rude and given that they are factories preparing comestible products, I'd say it's a serious security breach. There are also health and safety issues - both for your own safety and for the safety of distillery staff.

Out of interest, why don't you just ask for permission?

Don't get me wrong, I don't walk into the buildings...

[Nick Brown]

Well if you’re getting a negative reaction from distilleries and both Tattie and I are counselling against wandering in uninvited then there may be a message there. Out of interest, how would you feel if you found a stranger in your garden taking photos through your windows? Would it make any difference if he said he hadn’t actually gone inside your house or garage?

Incidentally, you may actually be making life harder for those who do seek permission or try to get tours organized at distilleries that are not normally open to the public.