LCBO Bourbons

[Zunak]

Interesting... thanks guys, now I really do believe there was something wrong with that particular Dickel. I used to drink a lot...I mean a LOT of bourbon back in my younger days when things went better with coke I loved Dickel, both No.12 and No.8 and never experienced the sourness that I did yesterday, but you know how things do change and both my friend and I were surprised at the Dickel and just figured that they must have f#@ked with the recipie. You know like most things "new and improved" and since the Old Forester had every bit the same cherry signature as the last bottle I had some 20yrs ago I figured they had just changed the Dickel. I didn't buy it my friend did so I'll tell him to take it back.

[marriedmalt]

As promised I did a head to head comparison between Elijah Craig 12yo and Four Roses Small Batch. My personal short notes are as follows.
Four Roses SB.
Nose: Demerara sugar and Vanilla
Mouth: rich rounded sugary delivery with a slight oiliness
Finish: Drying finish fairly long

Elijah Craig 12
N: Cedar, Citrus, somewhat lighter as opposed to the richer Four Roses.
M: big mouth filling initially with slightly more complexity than the FR, quickly becomes strident and somewhat hot.
F: Medium to long with a bitter undertone
Personally for the same money I would take the Four Roses, but neither of these really impressed me any more than the standard Buffalo Trace offering. They are both quite drinkable but have nowhere near the complexity I'm looking for. I finished the night (and myself) with aWLW followed by the Parker 10 wheated which made it all worthwhile.

So, after much debate, I decided to give bourbon another go. Thanks to the advice of forum members, I decided on Four Roses SB based on it's reasonable price, and good reviews. I must say, I now understand what all the fuss about bourbon is about! I am really enjoying this, much more the the Elijah Craig 12 y/o that I tried about 6 months ago. I am assuming that I was/am not accustomed to the potency of fresh oak barrels used to age the spirit, and this is what turned me off of it. I guess I figured that 12 years is the same when aging spirit, regardless of cask life . Rookie mistake. However, after tasting a younger bourbon, I must say that I am quite impressed, and can see a future relationship here. I don't know what the age statement is on the FRSB, but what ever it is, it is much more agreeable with me. I'm getting loads of vanilla and almond extract on the nose, with hints of brown sugar. I'm tasting a slight oak bitterness at the beginning that quickly fades into more almond extract and worthers original candies. This is balanced off with a medium finish of more oak and possibly a faint hint of nutmeg/cloves?
All in all, this has been a fantastic learning experience for me. I guess I never realized the difference that occurs in aging spirit in fresh oak barrels (bourbon), compared to the much more subtle influence that occurs when aging spirit in refill barrels used in the scotch industry. Once again, thanks for the education!

MM

[Smithford]

I guess I never realized the difference that occurs in aging spirit in fresh oak barrels (bourbon), compared to the much more subtle influence that occurs when aging spirit in refill barrels used in the scotch industry.

Malt too, can be aged in new oak with good results.

The other influence is the climate in which the spirit ages. Scotland and Kentucky are obviously very different places, with very different weather. The relatively cool, stable Scottish temperatures allow whisky to thrive longer in the barrel. Kentucky is subject to much larger temperature swings and lower relative humidity. Time is harder on whiskey in Kentucky.

Fun bourbon fact: When talking about Scotch, the "angels' share" is a well known phenomenon which reduces the abv in the cask, due to evaporation of alcohol. In the lower humidity of Kentucky, often more water than alcohol evaporates, causing abv to actually increase while aging. This is why cask strength bourbon can be so high in proof. Some George T. Stagg has been bottled at over 70% abv, despite being barrelled at 62.5%.

Anyway, I'm glad you're enjoying bourbon. Keep us posted with your likes and dislikes.

[Zunak]

So, after much debate, I decided to give bourbon another go. Thanks to the advice of forum members, I decided on Four Roses SB based on it's reasonable price, and good reviews. I must say, I now understand what all the fuss about bourbon is about! I am really enjoying this, much more the the Elijah Craig 12 y/o that I tried about 6 months ago. I am assuming that I was/am not accustomed to the potency of fresh oak barrels used to age the spirit, and this is what turned me off of it. I guess I figured that 12 years is the same when aging spirit, regardless of cask life . Rookie mistake. However, after tasting a younger bourbon, I must say that I am quite impressed, and can see a future relationship here. I don't know what the age statement is on the FRSB, but what ever it is, it is much more agreeable with me. I'm getting loads of vanilla and almond extract on the nose, with hints of brown sugar. I'm tasting a slight oak bitterness at the beginning that quickly fades into more almond extract and worthers original candies. This is balanced off with a medium finish of more oak and possibly a faint hint of nutmeg/cloves?
All in all, this has been a fantastic learning experience for me. I guess I never realized the difference that occurs in aging spirit in fresh oak barrels (bourbon), compared to the much more subtle influence that occurs when aging spirit in refill barrels used in the scotch industry. Once again, thanks for the education!

MM

Glad to hear you are enjoying Bourbon. I too had a slow start with Bourbons and tended to pass over them in preference of Scotch. I have now procured all of the Scotch whisky that I want that is readily available to me, so I've set my sights on American whisky. There are some amazing Bourbons in the high end range, complex and powerful, which will rival some of the very best Scotch whisky's. From my forray into high end American whisky I have even come to a greater appreciation of Rye (did I say that ) as in the Thomas H Handy and will search out more of the upscale rye's also. I would suggest you try the Rittenhouse Rye as I really enjoyed that one and it is now on the LCBO endangered species list. While I can and will offer my thoughts on any and all American whisky the real "go to" guys with regard to these are DBK and Smithford. They have both helped and guided me in many of my decisions regarding purchases.

[Card Player]

I picked up an eagle rare 10 today at lcbo. $48 i think is a fair price. Stock seems to be running low. Does anyone know if there is going to be another release? If not I may need to bunker a couple.

[marriedmalt]

Malt too, can be aged in new oak with good results.

The other influence is the climate in which the spirit ages. Scotland and Kentucky are obviously very different places, with very different weather. The relatively cool, stable Scottish temperatures allow whisky to thrive longer in the barrel. Kentucky is subject to much larger temperature swings and lower relative humidity. Time is harder on whiskey in Kentucky.

Fun bourbon fact: When talking about Scotch, the "angels' share" is a well known phenomenon which reduces the abv in the cask, due to evaporation of alcohol. In the lower humidity of Kentucky, often more water than alcohol evaporates, causing abv to actually increase while aging. This is why cask strength bourbon can be so high in proof. Some George T. Stagg has been bottled at over 70% abv, despite being barrelled at 62.5%.

And the education continues! I had actually wondered how they got the Stagg to be at such a high ABV. Cool stuff, thanks again.

MM

[marriedmalt]

[/quote]
Glad to hear you are enjoying Bourbon. I too had a slow start with Bourbons and tended to pass over them in preference of Scotch. I have now procured all of the Scotch whisky that I want that is readily available to me, so I've set my sights on American whisky. There are some amazing Bourbons in the high end range, complex and powerful, which will rival some of the very best Scotch whisky's. From my forray into high end American whisky I have even come to a greater appreciation of Rye (did I say that ) as in the Thomas H Handy and will search out more of the upscale rye's also. I would suggest you try the Rittenhouse Rye as I really enjoyed that one and it is now on the LCBO endangered species list. While I can and will offer my thoughts on any and all American whisky the real "go to" guys with regard to these are DBK and Smithford. They have both helped and guided me in many of my decisions regarding purchases.[/quote]

I have consumed a few bottles of the Rittenhouse actually over the past couple of years, I was not aware that it was "endangered".

MM

[dbk]

I picked up an eagle rare 10 today at lcbo. $48 i think is a fair price. Stock seems to be running low. Does anyone know if there is going to be another release? If not I may need to bunker a couple.

They've had Eagle Rare in and out of stores a few times a year, so if history is any indication, you should be fine. Eagle Rare uses Buffalo Trace's mash bill #1, which is the base for the majority of BT's bourbon sales (i.e., Benchmark, Buffalo Trace, Old Charter, Eagle Rare, George T. Stagg), so I don't think we'll have a problem on the producer's end. Sadly, the same cannot be said for Sazerac rye.

[Zunak]

I have consumed a few bottles of the Rittenhouse actually over the past couple of years, I was not aware that it was "endangered".

MM

I like to use that term when the LCBO marks their products as "LIMITED SUPPLY - AVAILABLE WHILE QUANTITIES LAST*". I don't think it means that it will never return just that numbers are dwindling. Sorry if I made you think otherwise.

[Smithford]

A couple of notes re: Rittenhouse.

I'm not sure what the LCBO has in mind for this brand. It is officially "on allocation" from its distributor. In some states it has become very difficult to find, and where it is available the price has gone up. I hope the LCBO is able to secure an ongoing supply since, IMHO, it's one of the best tasting, best value whiskeys available here. Despite it being on limited supply, a couple of cases have magically appeared at Queens Quay. For several weeks there has been none available in Toronto (I know, because I've been hoarding it).

The rye itself is about to change. Rittenhouse is a brand from the Heaven Hill distillery (as is Elijah Craig, Evan Williams, and a bunch of other brands not available here). Several years ago, there was a devastating fire at Heaven Hill's Bardstown distillery and all of their production capacity was lost. During the time that they were rebuilding and replenishing stock, they contracted out their distilling to various other distilleries. The results were mixed. Elijah Craig, which had always been a rock-solid, great pour went through several years of inconsistency. It's regained its footing now that the production is back under Heaven Hill's control. But it took a while and lost some loyal fans along the way (Jim Murray included).

As for Rittenhouse, it has been quite a bit more successful. The rye in the current bottles was distilled by Brown-Forman (at the same distillery as Old Forester), and aged at Heaven Hill. But Heaven Hill resumed production of their own rye about four years ago. And since four years is the minimum age for straight rye, the switch over to Heaven Hill distilled Rittenhouse is imminent - probably this year or next. Whether the rye will remain the same, get better, or get worse no one knows. But I've got a few bottles stashed away, just in case.

[Yello to Mello]

a couple of cases have magically appeared at Queens Quay. For several weeks there has been none available in Toronto (I know, because I've been hoarding it).

I think there is a manager at that store that keeps on pulling depleted stock from other stores that they know they can sell. I remember walking in there when the AP 30 was going scarce to find 12 more bottles on the shelf when the rest were out in the boonies.

[Card Player]

Rittenhouse was one that I tried 6 months ago and couldn't get into. I like spicey whiskeys like Legacy and Four Rose Single Barrel...maybe it was just too spicey and notes too close too medicine for me. I ended up using close to half the bottle for rye and gingers for when company came over. Most of the people were used to crown royal...when I used rittenhouse the reaction was...whoaaa...how much rye did you put in here? lol

[Smithford]

a couple of cases have magically appeared at Queens Quay. For several weeks there has been none available in Toronto (I know, because I've been hoarding it).

I think there is a manager at that store that keeps on pulling depleted stock from other stores that they know they can sell.

And ... they're gone. Must have been a customer transfer. Or another hoarder.

[Zunak]

a couple of cases have magically appeared at Queens Quay. For several weeks there has been none available in Toronto (I know, because I've been hoarding it).

And ... they're gone. Must have been a customer transfer. Or another hoarder.

I just picked up 4 this morning. I can usually zip OTR, pick up a bottle, pay duty, and be cheaper than the price here but not on this one. Less than 100 left province wide.... Hoarders start your engines... the race is on

[Card Player]

ROCK HILL FARMS SINGLE BARRELL BOURBON*
LCBO 272294 | 750 mL bottle
LIMITED SUPPLY - AVAILABLE WHILE QUANTITIES LAST*

Price: $ 89.95
Spirits
50.0% Alcohol/Vol.

Seen this listed today, no stock in stores yet. Anyone try this? Worth the price?

[portwood]

ROCK HILL FARMS SINGLE BARRELL BOURBON*
LCBO 272294 | 750 mL bottle
LIMITED SUPPLY - AVAILABLE WHILE QUANTITIES LAST*

Price: $ 89.95
Spirits
50.0% Alcohol/Vol.

Seen this listed today, no stock in stores yet. Anyone try this? Worth the price?

Not sure about the price but you might find this useful:
http://sourmashmanifesto.com/category/r ... hill-farm/

[SMC]

ROCK HILL FARMS SINGLE BARRELL BOURBON*
Anyone try this? Worth the price?

It's highly regarded on various bourbon sites (bourbonenthusiast.com, straightbourbon.com), and might be BTs best juice outside of the antique collection. It's strange that the Connosr rating is so low. As for the price, well I'll still be buying one even at $90. I've never been disappointed with anything from Buffalo Trace.

Also nice to see the usual LCBO spell checker in action.

[Smithford]

ROCK HILL FARMS SINGLE BARRELL BOURBON*
LCBO 272294 | 750 mL bottle
LIMITED SUPPLY - AVAILABLE WHILE QUANTITIES LAST*

Price: $ 89.95
Spirits
50.0% Alcohol/Vol.

Seen this listed today, no stock in stores yet. Anyone try this? Worth the price?

I had a bottle of Rock Hill Farms early on in my Bourbon Youth. I remember really liking it at the time. I think it's pretty universally loved by enthusiasts.

It's Buffalo Trace's high-rye mashbill (Blanton's) bottled at 50% abv. So if you're a fan of Blanton's, this will probably float your boat.

That price makes it the most expensive American Whiskey currently available at the LCBO, and is about double what most Americans are paying. As we all know, value is relative. Compared to most single malts, it's a bargain. But to me, for a bourbon, it's too expensive considering that it's not rare, or a special release.

It's in the same square decanter bottle as Caribou Crossing, which is really very lovely. RHF's stopper is much classier. It would look very appetizing on a dark wood shelf, next to a fireplace, with a comfy leather chair nearby. If you're into that kind of thing.

[bebdo]

Summerhill seems to be the only location with FR Single Barrel - and small quantities. Few days back there were 7, then nothing ... and today 3.
Returns maybe?
Anyone try this? I didn't much care for the small batch but liked the regular one.

[portwood]

Summerhill seems to be the only location with FR Single Barrel - and small quantities. Few days back there were 7, then nothing ... and today 3.
Returns maybe?
Anyone try this? I didn't much care for the small batch but liked the regular one.

I don't think they are returns. A couple of weeks ago they had 4 (I grabbed one out of a box in the isle before they made it to the shelf). Last Thursday there were ~8 on the shelf, Monday they were all gone... Today on-line inventory shows 3, actually 8 on the shelf.

Someone upthread mentioned they were informed that there were hundreds (thousands?) in the warehouse. Hard to believe that to be true unless they are in an upcomming vintages release and other stores are keeping them in the back room.

I like the small batch, have not opened the SB.

[Smithford]

Someone upthread mentioned they were informed that there were hundreds (thousands?) in the warehouse. Hard to believe that to be true unless they are in an upcomming vintages release and other stores are keeping them in the back room.

That was me. I'm not sure why it's appearing in dribbles like it is. When I inquired about it a few weeks ago, I could see the inventory screen and the number of bottles in the warehouse was a four digit number. So there are cases of it waiting to be distributed. It's not a Vintages item. It's a regular release.

I grabbed a bottle from barrel NS 12-3P and have been slowly getting to know it over the past couple of days. So far it's very good, but not exactly what I had hoped for. It's miles better than both the yellow label and the small batch, and on-par with Bulleit.

I was in Scotland in December, and happened upon a bottle of 4RSB in a pub. It was from a batch bottled in 2008, and was one of the best bourbons I've ever tasted. I had a second glass, then went back the next night for more. I was supposed to be there sampling single malts! Anyway, it was lush, tropical-sweet, velvety. My immediate thought was that it tasted like a Bulleit reduction (despite that it was a few abv points lower than Bulleit). So, I was pretty excited to see that 4RSB was coming to the LCBO. Now, I know that single barrel offerings are obviously subject to some differences, but NS 12-3P is nothing like 5-18-ODE.

But that's just my personal story. Your mileage may vary, and as noted before, 4RSB is one of the most highly regarded bourbons going. And at $45.95 is a great deal (I mean comparatively, in Ontario, of course). So grab some and let us know what you think. And those of you who did get some (portwood? Yello?) - taste it and post your thoughts.

[Card Player]

Have 1 bottle NS 12-3N. I have been enjoying this one. It has about the maximum amount of rye spice I find enjoyable, balanced with fleshy fruit, oak, and vanilla. I will definately buy more once they are out of the warehouse.

[Yello to Mello]

But that's just my personal story. Your mileage may vary, and as noted before, 4RSB is one of the most highly regarded bourbons going. And at $45.95 is a great deal (I mean comparatively, in Ontario, of course). So grab some and let us know what you think. And those of you who did get some (portwood? Yello?) - taste it and post your thoughts.

I got mine for my brother. We sampled it over Easter. At this point I don't know how tto describe it in words but it was a good one and I will likey buy my own if more becomes available. To me its the best value bourbons available...I rate this one better thank blantons

[Smithford]

ROCK HILL FARMS SINGLE BARRELL BOURBON*
LCBO 272294 | 750 mL bottle
LIMITED SUPPLY - AVAILABLE WHILE QUANTITIES LAST*

Price: $ 89.95
Spirits
50.0% Alcohol/Vol.

6 of these now showing at Dundas & Mavis.

[Frodo]

I'd love to try RHF but not at that price...