Absinthe

[Yello to Mello]

What is that stuff? By the alcohol content and the price and color it looks like it tastes like battery acid. In the store it seems that they sell the bottle with a spoon with a slit in it. I heard in Canada we dont sell the "real" type of absinthe because of some legalities....it has been matured in wormwood and could cause you to hallucinate or something?

[Peat Sampras]

It's a kind of herbal vermouth spirit. It originally comes from Switzerland, from the Canton of Neuchâtel where it is distilled in the Val de travers. If not diluted with water and if no sugar is added, it's really bitter. That's why you serve it in a glass and put the strange spoon with holes in it over the glass. Then you put a piece of sugar on the spoon and slowly pour water over the sugar until the sugar's disappeared into the glass. By watering the drink it gets troubled and sometimes greenish. They call it "la fée verte" for that reason.

The special thing about it is that it's got Thujon in it, which is a bit similar to THC in cannabis so if you drink too much of it you might not only get drunk but also be like high on weed.

It was banned in Switzerland from 1910, after a guy murdered some people while drunk and high on it until 2005 but in the valleys they always distilled it illegally and still do as the legal stuff can't have too much Thujon in it so if you want the real stuff, you still have to purchase it from an illegal distiller.

It's got a lot of folklore about it and was quite fancy like everything that's forbidden. It's not bad to drink, a bit similar to pastis, ouzo, becherovka and all those aperitifs that exist in almost every country. I hope you get to try some!

[Peat Sampras]

[Johnny Murgatroyd]

Hi all

I am interested in acquainting myself with la fee verte . Does anyone have any suggestions for a reasonable quality absinthe that might be available in Australia? (or at least, widely available?)

Rgds
Jonathan

[Pete Smoke]

The 'additional' active compound in Absinthe is thujone from Artemisia Absinthium, a European garden weed also known as wormwood.

Absinthe is flavoured with anise, fennel, wormwood (which tastes of mint) and other herbs and was once grouped with anisette and pernod etc.. In fact thujone is a common essential oil, found in all mints and conifer trees etc..

Absinthe was a favoured drink of debauched European artists, thinkers, and writers and was banned as more of a symbolic gesture by those trying to suppress these movements. The hallucinogenic effects of thujone in absinthe is mythical, and nonsense.

Absinthe is coloured green and traditionally known as "The Green Fairy" from la fée verte. The louche ritual is quite pointless imo, good absinthe is very bitter but many quite like that, the slotted spoon is going too far for such a silly drink. Just add some Gomme or other syrup if you must.

[Tim F]

Disagree, Pete - I personally feel absinthe should always be watered - at around 70%, it can take a ratio of 1 to 5 and still be a balanced, flavoursome drink. Also, real unsweetened absinthe really does benefit from the dissolved sugar.

The reason absinthe got its bad reputation 100 years ago was because many people drank it at full strength and then lost control of themselves, which is really not surprising at those kind of strengths.

Someone mentioned pernod above - Pernod started out as an absinthe distillery. After absinthe was banned they switched to making an aniseed liqueur - something similar to absinthe but without the wormwood and at a lower strength. This imitation absinthe became known as pastis because it was a pastiche of real absinthe and this product is what we know as Pernod today (although they have recently gone back to producing real absinthe as well).

I was at a tasting the other week with a fascinating chap -a former analytical chemist turned absinthe retailer who wrote one of the definitive articles debunking the hallucinogen theory. His absinthes were excellent, but the greatest effect he ascribes to them is 'enhanced lucidity', which is obviously not the same as hallucinations. He also had a 19th century book of absinthe recipes which seemed to prove that the levels of wormwood/thujone were not significantly different from today's most authentic examples. The EU limit for thuijone content is 35mg/l , most commercially available absinthes are well within this limit. Unfortunately debate over thujone limits and the perceived effects distract from the fact that well-made absinthe is a very enjoyable and tasty aperitif.

We are seeing a lot of new absinthes coming through now and the quality is very high. In most cases this is because they are made to original recipes or retro-engineered from samples of original bottles. Definitely a category to watch in the next couple of years.

[Pete Smoke]

Disagree, Pete - I personally feel absinthe should always be watered - at around 70%, it can take a ratio of 1 to 5 and still be a balanced, flavoursome drink. Also, real unsweetened absinthe really does benefit from the dissolved sugar.

But i agree Tim. I just find the spoon and lump of sugar an excessive ritual, i didn't say no water should be added, although i wasn't very clear. Last time i had it was a 50%er and on that occasion i did sip it neat.

http://www.absinthefever.com/absinthe/ritual

[Tim F]

Ah, sorry Pete - i didn't get your meaning.

Clearly we have differing views, though - personally, I love paraphernalia and drink-related rituals

[whiskytime]

The thing that really ticks me off is how many "boutique" distillers are adding a lot of bright green color to it - looks so fake - kind of like those cheap boozey bottles they sell to young drinkers who want to get trashed.

I had a really good uncolored version at a friend's house - so good w/water. Can't remember the brand.

[Peat Sampras]

But i agree Tim. I just find the spoon and lump of sugar an excessive ritual, i didn't say no water should be added, although i wasn't very clear. Last time i had it was a 50%er and on that occasion i did sip it neat.

http://www.absinthefever.com/absinthe/ritual

Drinking la fée verte with a spoon and lump of sugar perfectly makes sense as it sweetens the otherwise bitter taste of the illicit distilled stuff. Other than that, it's a ritual, traditional, so just let them do it. It doesn't make sense to wear silly hats at a horse race neither but y'all do it at Ascot

[Pete Smoke]

Drinking la fée verte with a spoon and lump of sugar perfectly makes sense

Does it?

It doesn't make sense to wear silly hats at a horse race neither but y'all do it at Ascot

Do I?

[Pete Smoke]

Thujone is most famous for being a compound in the spirit absinthe. In the past it was thought that absinthe contained up to 260–350 mg/L thujone, but modern tests have shown this to be far too high. A 2008 study of 13 pre-ban (1895–1910) bottles using gas chromatography-mass spectrometry (GC-MS) found that the bottles had between 0.5 mg/L and 48.3 mg/L and averaged 25.4 mg/L. A 2005 study recreated three 1899 high-wormwood recipes and tested with GC-MS, and found that the highest contained 4.3 mg/L thujone. GC-MS testing is important in this capacity, because gas chromatography alone may record an inaccurately high reading of thujone as other compounds may interfere with and add to the apparent measured amount.
Absinthe produced under the modern EU (European Union) limits for thujone content may have a maximum of 10 mg/L if >25% alcohol, and 35 mg/L for "bitters" with less alcohol.

More recently, following European Council Directive No. 88/388/EEC (1988) allowing certain levels of thujone in foodstuffs in the EU, the studies described above were conducted and found only minute levels of thujone in absinthe.

[cowfish]

You can find the paper about Thujone by the guy Tim mentions above on his website:

http://www.absintheonline.com/acatalog/about.html

[olikli]

Someone mentioned pernod above - Pernod started out as an absinthe distillery. After absinthe was banned they switched to making an aniseed liqueur - something similar to absinthe but without the wormwood and at a lower strength. This imitation absinthe became known as pastis because it was a pastiche of real absinthe and this product is what we know as Pernod today (although they have recently gone back to producing real absinthe as well).

I just discovered this thread. Being a die-hard pastis fan I want to learn a bit more about this legendary stuff.

Tim is not entirely correct about Pernod being a Pastis. Traditionally pastis is macerated while Pernod is an 'anisette' made from distilled essences. And I think there is no mention of 'Pastis' on the Pernod bottles. But I digress.

I have tried the Pernod absinthe which while being quite nice seems indeed more like a pastis/anisette than an absinthe. Could anyone recommend a decent and fairly authentic abnsinthe, please?

[Tim F]

I've never heard that before, Oli, do you have a source for it? I've never seen anyone make that distinction before, over here any french aniseed liquer is casually referred to as pastis as far as I'm aware. I'd heard the anisette term, but hadn't heard any proper explanation for it, or realised that it was different from pastis, so thanks.

The only official definitions on pastis I could find were in EEC regs:

'(EEC) No 1576/89 of 29 May 1989 laying down general rules on the definition, description and presentation of spirit drinks'

which say:

(2) For an aniseed-flavoured spirit drink to be called 'pastis' it must also contain natural extracts of liquorice root (Glycyrrhiza glabra), which implies the presence of the colorants known as 'chalcones' as well as glycyrrhizic acid, the minimum and maximum levels of which must be 0,05 and 0,5 grams per litre respectively.

and

(4) For an aniseed-flavoured spirit drink to be called anis, its characteristic flavour must be derived exclusively from anise (pimpinella anisum) and/or star anise (illicium verum) and/or fennel (foeniculum vulgare). The name 'distilled anis' may be used if the drink contains alcohol distilled in the presence of such seeds, provided such alcohol constitutes at least 20 % of the drink's alcoholic strength.

Pastis contains less than 100 grams of sugar per litre and has a minimum and maximum anethole level of 1,5 and 2 grams per litre respectively.

[olikli]

I've never heard that before, Oli, do you have a source for it? I've never seen anyone make that distinction before, over here any french aniseed liquer is casually referred to as pastis as far as I'm aware. I'd heard the anisette term, but hadn't heard any proper explanation for it, or realised that it was different from pastis, so thanks.

I did not look up official regulations, but the French wikipedia article about Pernod mentions this. They also state it's not a pastis because of the very low liquorice content.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pernod_%28alcool%29

In colloquial terms, I'd call it pastis too. But technically it isn't.

[Tim F]

Oli, I think you've got that the wrong way round? Looking at the EEC regulations and the wikipedia article (which unfortunately has no citations to back up any of its assertions), I'd say that according to wikipedia it isn't pastis, but technically it is.

Back to absinthe, though, I can heartily recommend the Enigma absinthes that myself and Billy tried recently (see his excellent writeup here: http://bbblog.org.uk/2011/08/enigma-absinthe-with-ian-hutton/) My personal preference was for the blanche, taken with a sugar cube and diluted with 4 or 5 parts water.

Billy and I will shortly be going to taste the new Jade absinthes we've recently listed, and I have very high hopes for them as they are from the same stable.

[olikli]

Oli, I think you've got that the wrong way round? Looking at the EEC regulations and the wikipedia article (which unfortunately has no citations to back up any of its assertions), I'd say that according to wikipedia it isn't pastis, but technically it is.

(2) For an aniseed-flavoured spirit drink to be called 'pastis' it must also contain natural extracts of liquorice root (Glycyrrhiza glabra), which implies the presence of the colorants known as 'chalcones' as well as glycyrrhizic acid, the minimum and maximum levels of which must be 0,05 and 0,5 grams per litre respectively.

Do you know the glycyrrhizic acid content of Pernod? If it is below 0.05 g/l, it isn't a pastis. As the regulations obviously don't care if it's distilled or macerated, the liquorice content seems to be the key point. Maceration appears to be more an issue of tradition. And actually Pernod tastes pretty different to a 'proper' pastis that has this word on its label. Pernod have always had their proper pastis (Pastis 51) along with their 'Pernod'. I suspect there is a reason why they call the 51 pastis and the Pernod anisé.

There is a French bar website that claims these are original informations from Pernod.

http://www.frenchbar.com/pernod_original_infos.htm

But they don't seem to have it on the Pernod website. As you can find the exact same wording on a Belgian online beer and spirits shop I have no reason to doubt this really is an orignal promotional text by Pernod.

As much as I have looked, I have found no incidence of Pernod actually calling their product pastis. At TWE you should have contacts at Pernod Ricard. Ask them. I'd be very surprised if they confirmed that Pernod is a pastis in the legal sense.

Back to absinthe, though, I can heartily recommend the Enigma absinthes that myself and Billy tried recently (see his excellent writeup here: http://bbblog.org.uk/2011/08/enigma-absinthe-with-ian-hutton/) My personal preference was for the blanche, taken with a sugar cube and diluted with 4 or 5 parts water.

Billy and I will shortly be going to taste the new Jade absinthes we've recently listed, and I have very high hopes for them as they are from the same stable.

Thanks, TIm. I will wait for the reports and then give one of them a try.

[Tim F]

Hoist with my own petard! Think you've hit it on the liquorice content, Oli, if this Andrew Jefford article is anything to go by:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/2cbc3544-64dc ... z1UpHAwSqt

He says that Pernod has no liquorice content at all. That seems a more likely explanation than the macerated / essences idea. It would seem that the lazy English-speaking generic reference to any French anise spirit as pastis is something akin to calling all vacuum cleaners 'Hoovers' - everyone understands what you mean, but it's not actually correct. Sincere thanks for the clarification.

Incidentally, the Jade PF absinthe is reverse-engineered from an original bottle of Pernod Absinthe (although thanks to bottle-age effects of course that source bottle won't taste as it would have done in the 19th century). Will definitely report back once we've tasted them.

[cowfish]

Incidentally, the Jade PF absinthe is reverse-engineered from an original bottle of Pernod Absinthe (although thanks to bottle-age effects of course that source bottle won't taste as it would have done in the 19th century). Will definitely report back once we've tasted them.

I recently came into possession of a small sample of original pre-ban Pernod Fils as well as a sample of the Jade PF. I'm going to wait for my absinthe palate to develop a bit and then some comparison tasting will be done.

I'm going to try and have a taste of the Jade Verte Suisse and/or Nouvelle Orleans tonight - my absinthe connection has hooked me up with some tasty things...