SMWS - becoming a rip off ?

[Nick Brown]

It's not about being affluent, personally I'm far from it, but everyone I know who is a member is passionate about the whisky and sharing it with others.

That's right. I have taken a number of guests into the Society and they have all imagined the members would be old, wealthy, white and male. And boring. They have been pleasantly surprised to find both men and women; young and old; people who look wealthy and people who don't. I'm not sure we've quite cracked the race issue yet, but that's something to work on.

By way of contrast, I don't know what the New Club (www.newclub.co.uk) charges for membership because its website is rather coy about membership. But the photos suggest a membership that is old, wealthy, white and male. And boring.

[Nick Brown]

Well, I was in the Vaults last night and had a gorgeous sherried 18yo Macallan. Flawless. It cost £60 a bottle, including p&p. Or £58 over the counter. The distillery bottling costs £68 over the counter and if you want it delivered, you have to pay extra.

Oh, and the SMWS version is cask strength 56.9%, whereas the official bottling is 43%. By my reckoning, if you bought two bottles, you'd have covered the cost of your annual renewal.

[Gilles Deleuze]

That sounds great, Nick. Out of curiosity, do you happen to remember the cask number?

The price certainly sounds good as well. My educated guess is that a similar bottling in the US chapter would cost somewhere in the vicinity of $130, or GBP 90, so well out of my price range. Looks like I need to think about moving across the pond...

[Nick Brown]

24.104.


If that would have cost you about $130, that might be a hangover of the old exchange rate of £1 = $2. That would make a £65 whisky (and being produced in Scotland, it would be priced in pounds) about $130. Once the US chapter starts buying whisky with the present exchange rates, you might well see dollar prices falling.

[The Craw]

Yip, a new group called the Mafia met for the first time last night at the Vaults.

Now, I'm not a regular visitor to the SMWS, nor a member, but one thing I was most definitely not was ripped off. Nor am I the kinda guy to be ripped off.

I had:
50.37 Bladnoch
7.51 Longmorn
24.104 Macallan
93.XX Glen Scotia
3.146 Bowmore
37.43 Cragganmore

So, 6 excellent drams, well the Bowmore was a bit short of excellent to be honest, so 5 excellent drams and a taste-bud torching Bowmore all for little over £20.

The Macallan was the best of the night for me, followed closely by the Bladnoch (which did what it said on the tasting note 'Grips the cheeks') an extreme example of a very citrus Bladnoch.

Highlight of the night was finding an Ardmore entitled 'Whisky-flavoured condoms and skunk road-kill'

Also, it was a good excuse to meet up with Willie and Nick to dole out some Grain samples for next weekends online tasting.

[Ivar]

When it comes to ordering bottles it`s a bit tricky because they can`t ship to Norway but for us there`s a solution ;since I`m swedish We`re often there and sweden has its own branch so you can order smws bottles there

I also live in Norway, and I joined the swedish branch some years ago for specific reasons: to get access to some japanese bottlings. SMWS is, as far as I know, the only independent bottler so far (before the rumoured Cadenhead's casks appear...), that has bottled anything from Nikka/Suntory. The other reason for joining was to get access to bottlings form distilleries not that easily available from other IB's, e.g. like Glenkinchie and young Ardbegs from the new regime. Also, I have appreciated bottlings like the heavily peated Tomatin, and, not to forget, bourbon. And finally, the swedes where remarkably slow in ordering the stuff that went to Sweden, so I suspect it was easier for me to get bottlings that would quickly disappear in other markets...

Therefore, my reasons for joining SMWS was not triggered by their commonly available destilleries and products, but rather by their unusual and different bottlings.

These days I am not longer a member, as the swedish branch seems unproffesionably unavailable - the website has not been updated in ages. Me needs are to spesific to just be a member buying bottles "over the counter" in Leith or London.

Ivar Svensson
Drammen, Norway

[The Craw]

Ivar, a very warm welcome to the forum.

Drammen eh, what a cool name for a place - Drammin in Drammen (Sorry, couldn't resist! )

Anyway, Cadenheads Japanese casks sound intriguing. I take it you're a big Japanese whisky fan? It sounds like you appreciate a wide range from the world of Whisk(e)y.

Anyway, all the best and welcome.

[Ivar]

Ivar, a very warm welcome to the forum.

Thanks!

Anyway, Cadenheads Japanese casks sound intriguing.

This is also perhaps more of a hope than a rumour! If anyone in the IB-business would do it (e.g. bottling Nikka/Suntory, I am not considering the other distilleries), they would be the ones to do it. I would not be surprised, as they are the only ones to have shown a real interest world whiskies.

[2eriskay]

I've been a member for a few years and "yes" the prices are going up, however I do enjoy the contents. The biggest jump is the tastings. When I first joined, the Glasgow Tasting was £20 for non members and I took along eight. Now its up to £35 and no one will go. For £35 you could buy a nice bottle. If they are trying to attract new members they are going quickly in the wrong direction!

[2eriskay]

I took the gamble of their recent three bottle offer for £80.

I got....

8yr old Bowmore
23yr old Clynelish
32 yr old Glen Keith

Not to bad. They have restored my faith for another wee while!

[sb1206]

Sounds like you did very well 2eriskay.
I went in to there rooms and asked for that deal and they gave me : 8yo Clynelish, 11 yo macallan and 9yo Royal Brackla.

On the subject of whether the society has become a rip off I would say no provided you have money to spend on bottles or you enjoy using the premises. With regards to the bottlings if you taste first and stick to a budget you can get some outstanding bottlings very very reasonably. Also, I have had very good opportunities at open tastings to taste bottles I would nevere dream of buying like a 41yo Glenfarclas and a similar aged sherried longmorn.

But I can see that if you do not live in London or Edinburgh (I think these are the only rooms) it might be questionable for you if it's still good value whether to renew or not.

Anyway, I have noticed the fact that their new valentines label (gimmick) seems not to have sold so well.

[2eriskay]

Yes....I think I was very lucky! I stay in Kilmarnock and have never visited any of their premises, I really should. I know of quite a few who have given up membership, however as long as I stay working, I'll probably remain a member. My mate asked them to raise a "country" membership but was shot down in flames. I suppose they have to keep up the costs to ensure they can afford to continue to buy premises that only so many can visit.

[solera]

Having just joined this forum I thought I should offer a belated opinion.
I've been a member for about 8 years and have lived in Yorkshire for all of that time.
I use the Edinburgh rooms twice a year normally as part of a weekend at Murrayfield for the rugby. Normally end up taking a guest or 2 in before or after the match and am always pleasantly surprised by the tab we run up - including food etc. i- think its genuinely good value.
Probably also attend a couple of tastings a year in Harrogate or Leeds and find any whiskies purchased to be top class.
Would agree tastings are getting pretty pricey but overall think SMWS membership is still very worth while.

[MacDeffe]

I often visit the place as a guest. I was a bit dissapointed last time with the malts

Then we tried pouring it into a Glencairn glass instead of their own bowl shaped ones

huge improvement. I belive their own glasses are very good at bringing out the spirit harshness of the malt and disguises all the good aromas

Macdeffe

[ClubSmed]

I was absolutely disgusted with the SMWS stand at TWE Whisky Show yesterday in London. I was asked the question "are you a member?" as I was poured my 1st whisky, to which I obviously answered "Yes" and then I was promptly ignored by the SMWS representatives while they flocked around potential new sign ups. At one point there was even 2 of the 3 people on the stand talking to a couple, the other one checking messages on her phone while I was left completely unattended. I am not a member who is fortunate enough to live close to either London or Edinburgh so these interactions are the few chances I get to interact with the society and sample what is on offer. After the appalling treatment yesterday I am left wondering why I would bother renewing my membership as it would seem being a member does not give you any advantages in fact it seems to be a disadvantage!

[dstirk]

I was absolutely disgusted with the SMWS stand at TWE Whisky Show yesterday in London. I was asked the question "are you a member?" as I was poured my 1st whisky, to which I obviously answered "Yes" and then I was promptly ignored by the SMWS representatives while they flocked around potential new sign ups. At one point there was even 2 of the 3 people on the stand talking to a couple, the other one checking messages on her phone while I was left completely unattended. I am not a member who is fortunate enough to live close to either London or Edinburgh so these interactions are the few chances I get to interact with the society and sample what is on offer. After the appalling treatment yesterday I am left wondering why I would bother renewing my membership as it would seem being a member does not give you any advantages in fact it seems to be a disadvantage!

This is VERY interesting Matthew. I joined at The Whisky Show on Friday after having cancelled my membership many years ago - due to being treated like a second-class citizen. I told the fellahs on the SMWS stand the whole story behind my leaving and they were 'astounded' and 'embarrased' and were full of promises of a changed club with a new perspective and I would love being a member now. It appears that nothing has changed and as you stated it appears you are better treated as a non-member!

One further point I would like to make; I joined, again, on Friday because I tried 6 or 7 bottlings at The Whisky Show which were incredibly good whiskies (depressingly good I have to admit). I then got my club membership box which had 4 different whiskies inside - all but one (a Laphroaig) were very poor:- harsh, overly youthful and little if any cask-interaction. I realise now that they had simply chosen half a dozen or so drams that were exemplary. I was reluctant to join the SMWS before because I had heard their bottlings were so variable - I now realise that this is the case. Still, in their defence, I bought several bottles from the ones they had open as they were truly brilliant whiskies but any IB that has to hand-pick the whiskies they take to a show are clearly not proud of everything they do!

David

[Nick Brown]

Hi David

I think you are being harsh in criticising the SMWS for cherry picking the bottles it takes to festivals. All IBs will try to select the bottles they are most proud of, won't they? I remember many a festival when Susan Colville worked for Douglas Laing and she always picked stellar bottlings from a large portfolio - always made a visit to the DL stand the highlight of a festival. It would take a pretty perverse exhibitor to bring along their least impressive offerings...

Having said that, I'm sorry to hear the SMWS didn't treat ClubSmed with more courtesy. Particularly since, without life membership, existing members must be retained just as actively as new members recruited.

[ClubSmed]

Hi David

I think you are being harsh in criticising the SMWS for cherry picking the bottles it takes to festivals. All IBs will try to select the bottles they are most proud of, won't they? I remember many a festival when Susan Colville worked for Douglas Laing and she always picked stellar bottlings from a large portfolio - always made a visit to the DL stand the highlight of a festival. It would take a pretty perverse exhibitor to bring along their least impressive offerings..

I see your point here Nick, but I think what David is saying is that by selling the Membership pack on the basis of the wares on show only for the new member to get home and find substandard content in the membership pack is a bit of a scam. It's like those dodgy "out of a suitcase" sellers that show you some gold jewelery but what you walk away with is gold painted tin.

[dstirk]

Hi Nick,

not sure how I am being harsh - why should any bottler have substandard bottlings? And to be honest 3 of the 4 in the new-members pack were rubbish. I am the first to admit that no IB gets it right all of the time, but 3 out of 4 is not a decent return.

My fear now is that when the new list comes out, what whiskies do I choose? Not living near a member's room I have no way of trying for myself and if 3 out of 4 of the whiskies I buy are going to be poor, it is going to be an extremely expensive club to be a member of!

David

[mlawrenson]

Having said that, I'm sorry to hear the SMWS didn't treat ClubSmed with more courtesy. Particularly since, without life membership, existing members must be retained just as actively as new members recruited.

I'm presuming that somebody somewhere gets a bonus for every new membership paid for, bonuses that do not happen upon yearly renewal of that membership (I renewed last week, and renewal is about half of the inital membership fee). If that's the case, then it's understandable the SMWS concentrates on recruiting new members at whisky festivals to the detriment of existing members. If I was a cruel person I'd imagine them thinking "Ha ha ha. We already have your money so we don't need to give you any attention".

Though in my experience, I've never had anything but very good service from the SMWS. I don't buy that many bottles, as I'm equidistant from all the members rooms. Paying £50 a bottle for an unknown quantity is a little much to expect. I've bought plenty after New List tastings when I can get down to Greville St. Difficult to see what the SMWS could do about that. They could send out 5cl samples, I suppose, but that would deplete the amount of bottles they could sell and there'd be no guarantee there would be any bottles left by the time you wanted to buy one you liked.

[mongo]

Hi David

I think you are being harsh in criticising the SMWS for cherry picking the bottles it takes to festivals. All IBs will try to select the bottles they are most proud of, won't they? I remember many a festival when Susan Colville worked for Douglas Laing and she always picked stellar bottlings from a large portfolio - always made a visit to the DL stand the highlight of a festival. It would take a pretty perverse exhibitor to bring along their least impressive offerings..

I see your point here Nick, but I think what David is saying is that by selling the Membership pack on the basis of the wares on show only for the new member to get home and find substandard content in the membership pack is a bit of a scam. It's like those dodgy "out of a suitcase" sellers that show you some gold jewelery but what you walk away with is gold painted tin.

yes, but is it likely that they're making their money only from the initial sign-up fee? if not, how can it be a sustainable business plan to sell members only one good bottling in every four. they'd be out of business in a hurry. especially if they were putting three crap bottles in the membership pack which is designed to sell people on buying more from the regular out-turns. if anything you'd expect them to overload the membership pack with much better bottlings on average than the regular out-turns.

[damenzie]

For what it's worth, I enjoyed all four bottles in my membership pack(~6 months ago, and definitely different bottles as mine did not include a Laphroaig). Surely what you like or don't like is generally personal preference anyway, and maybe someone else loved these particular bottles? Even browsing this forum you can find very different opinions on the quality of one particular expression.

How they treat existing members is a much bigger concern for me, given I have to decide whether to renew later in the year and it's really disappointing to hear these sort of stories.

[dstirk]

Hi David

I think you are being harsh in criticising the SMWS for cherry picking the bottles it takes to festivals. All IBs will try to select the bottles they are most proud of, won't they? I remember many a festival when Susan Colville worked for Douglas Laing and she always picked stellar bottlings from a large portfolio - always made a visit to the DL stand the highlight of a festival. It would take a pretty perverse exhibitor to bring along their least impressive offerings...

Whether this is true or not is irrelevant - Douglas Laing do not charge you £100 before offering you their products.

For what it's worth, I enjoyed all four bottles in my membership pack. Surely what you like or don't like is generally personal preference anyway to a large extent? Maybe someone else loved these particular bottles?

How they treat existing members is a much bigger concern for me, given I have to decide whether to renew later in the year.

I'm sure they change from year to year (a lottery...) - the worst of my bunch was a young-ish Auchentoshan that did not show the distillery in a pleasant light at all.

[Nick Brown]

I agree that there shouldn't be any bad whiskies - the Tasting Panel is designed to ensure that - but tastes do vary. As some people note, the question of sulphur does divide whisky drinkers. Some hate it and some (apparently in Germany) like it. The trouble is, sulphur comes from sherry butts and they are bigger than bourbon barrels - hence lots of bottles per cask. They should be labelled clearly in the tasting notes - watch for keywords such as: bonfire night, fireworks, matches, eggs, rubber, tyres, etc. Some whiskies scrape through the panel (acceptable but not super-special) and others really are stellar. But from experience, the panel finds only 1 stellar cask in about 14. If only the stellar casks were bottled, the SMWS wouldn't have much stock.

It is understandable that the less popular whiskies will find their way into mystery parcels and introductory packs. Again, in my experience, these are not necessarily the least good whiskies, they are the ones from unfashionable distilleries (e.g. Dailuaine, Ben Rinnes, etc.) or the ones with large outturns. Some of the Dailuaines in particular are excellent.

I'm surprised that Islay whiskies are being included in introductory packs as these tend to sell quickly. The SMWS cannot get enough smokey whisky to satisfy demand. If Islays are in the introductory packs then it suggests that the Society is trying to include a variety rather than just getting rid of old stock.

Anyway, I think the Society does have an excellent standard of whiskies and often has unusual expressions.

[C57]

Nick, I've had a few packs from SMWS. Most have been mediocre, and a few have had sherry cask bottles - they're not that rare. Almost all have been sulphured, if not inferior in some other way.
I do believe they sell the remains of things that haven't been popular because of flaws.

I suspect most (not all, obviously) SMWS members will have heard of most of the distilleries so I'm not inclined to believe it's due to a distillery being "unknown".
But in truth, how would we ever know how the policy works. I don't know that there are any current panel members on the forum and if there are they wouldn't tell us.

And then again, it's quite possible that the panel may get overruled - these aren't the days of Pip Hill when things were run for members' satisfaction. It's all on a much more commercial footing now, IMO.