Whisky Bible 2012

[Mr Tattie Heid]

Mr. T is to Jim Murray as Nick is to Bruichladdich...

Harsh but fair.

[JethroTull]

Just got my copy.

It's the usual mix of brilliant insight and utter drivel. The review of Glen Moray 10 is: 'Tighter than a wine cork' and a mere 73.5 points. What on earth is that supposed to mean?

Perhaps Jim did not manage to open the bottle

Brilliant!

[lohssanami]

If you rate the Ardbeg Feis Ile 2011 as 67 you are incompotent as whisky reviewer. And I will state that so I reckon its not even up for discussion

Steffen

I had a 50cl supply of this in Scotland in May, and I shared it with at least 20 people. All of them, including some tasting it without pre-conceived bias (BLIND - Bias Lacking In Nosing, Dramming), rated it very high. Maybe it is a typo like the infamous 52.3% Canadian Uigeadail.

[Mr Tattie Heid]

I personally don't have any use for the Whisky Bible, and frankly I don't think it's the best use of Murray's obvious talents. That said, given what it is he attempts to do, he's remarkably consistent, and it's amazing that there aren't more seemingly bizarre scorings than there are. One of the benefits of unmitigated ego is you're not afraid to say what you think, regardless of the potential fallout.

[Aidan]

If you rate the Ardbeg Feis Ile 2011 as 67 you are incompotent as whisky reviewer. And I will state that so I reckon its not even up for discussion

Steffen

I had a 50cl supply of this in Scotland in May, and I shared it with at least 20 people. All of them, including some tasting it without pre-conceived bias (BLIND - Bias Lacking In Nosing, Dramming), rated it very high. Maybe it is a typo like the infamous 52.3% Canadian Uigeadail.

Yeah, I think he left out a one before the 67. They think they've found a particle that goes faster than light, so Jim Murray can find a score that's larger than 100.

I have bought it this year, as usual. I buy it for the Irish whiskey section, but it doesn't change much from year to year.

[MacDeffe]

and it's amazing that there aren't more seemingly bizarre scorings than there are

I can't agree less. It's and endless list of bizarre random scores. He is the most inconsistent reviewer out there. I find the book so useless as a rating guide, but its quite good if you want a listing of bottlings

Steffen

[Mr Tattie Heid]

and it's amazing that there aren't more seemingly bizarre scorings than there are

I can't agree less. It's and endless list of bizarre random scores. He is the most inconsistent reviewer out there. I find the book so useless as a rating guide, but its quite good if you want a listing of bottlings

Steffen

Fair enough...I haven't actually looked at one for years.

[MacDeffe]

We could ask Willie. He probably tasted all he reviewed .

Steffen

[les taylor]

We could ask Willie. He probably tasted all he reviewed .

Steffen

Willie has probably got all the bottles he's reviewed.

[Mr Tattie Heid]

Murray doesn't actually drink any whisky--he just steals Willie's notes off the forum.

[Mark C]

That's fighting talk lol.

I just re-checked and JM did indeed award the "Ardbeg Feils Ile 2011" just 67/100.

I can't comment. I do own a couple of bottles, but haven't cracked one open as yet.

Stranger and stranger. Never seen Jimbo give an Ardbeg under 85 to my knowledge. Have LVMH annoyed him in some way?

Yeah, they used sherry butts.

Finding myself shaking my head at some of the reviews of sherry cask whiskies but then I'm obviously not as sensitive to any sulphur as Mr Murray, even though I'm quite capable of telling what a struck match smells like.

[Lawrence]

He does hate sulphured whiskies and views the presence of sulphur as a flaw and scores accordingly.

[C57]

And personally, I agree with him on that. But not ALL sherried whisky has sulphur.

[mongo]

there's also a kind of sloppiness in talking about sulphur (this is not in reference to murray per se, but more to people like us on forums like this one): it is often as though any presence of elements that might possibly fall under the broad umbrella of sulphurous aromas or flavours is run away hysterically screaming from as though it means there's nothing in the whisky but overpowering sulphur aromas and flavours. not everything that call sulphur to mind is an overwhelming taint. notes of gunpowder, matches, rubber etc. can be good things too or they can be very minor elements of well balanced whiskies.

[Mr Tattie Heid]

GWP....

[les taylor]

GWP....

Hopefully I'm not the only one GWP?

[Lawrence]

GWP....

More bang for your...

[Lawrence]

And personally, I agree with him on that. But not ALL sherried whisky has sulphur.

Yes, thankfully. It seems to be a double bonus when you find a whisky that's sherried and not sulphured these days.

[C57]

there's also a kind of sloppiness in talking about sulphur (this is not in reference to murray per se, but more to people like us on forums like this one): it is often as though any presence of elements that might possibly fall under the broad umbrella of sulphurous aromas or flavours is run away hysterically screaming from as though it means there's nothing in the whisky but overpowering sulphur aromas and flavours. not everything that call sulphur to mind is an overwhelming taint. notes of gunpowder, matches, rubber etc. can be good things too or they can be very minor elements of well balanced whiskies.

Depends how senstitive you are to sulphur. What you may find a slight taint, others more sensitive to sulphur may find overwhelming.
That is not sloppiness. It's sloppy thinking to judge eveyone else's tastes and sensitivities by your own

[Mr Tattie Heid]

You're not wrong, Nick, but mongo has a point. It reminds me of the careless way in which people invoke 'FWP' when talking about Bowmore's floral character. Thus my GWP reference. I think it's worth being especially careful in describing what we don't like about a whisky, as opposed to saying it's tainted.

[mongo]

there's also a kind of sloppiness in talking about sulphur (this is not in reference to murray per se, but more to people like us on forums like this one): it is often as though any presence of elements that might possibly fall under the broad umbrella of sulphurous aromas or flavours is run away hysterically screaming from as though it means there's nothing in the whisky but overpowering sulphur aromas and flavours. not everything that call sulphur to mind is an overwhelming taint. notes of gunpowder, matches, rubber etc. can be good things too or they can be very minor elements of well balanced whiskies.

Depends how senstitive you are to sulphur. What you may find a slight taint, others more sensitive to sulphur may find overwhelming.
That is not sloppiness. It's sloppy thinking to judge eveyone else's tastes and sensitivities by your own

i'm not judging anyone's actual sensitivity to sulphur. i'm suggesting that as the dread taint of sulphur has become a meme of sorts for people like us, that sensitivity has for some extended to words.

for example:

person 1 drinks a whisky that he enjoys thoroughly or finds inoffensive.

person 2 drinks that same whisky and in her notes remarks a trace of "rubber" on the finish.

person 1 then stops drinking that whisky because the word "rubber" in reviews has come to be associated with "sulphur" and anything sulphurous is supposed to be bad (even though not all the things that could fall under the category sulphurous may indeed be offensive to person 1 in and of themselves).

person 1 then notes in a forum post that he's heard that there are issues with sulphur in that whisky.

person 3 decides not to try this whisky at all because it's sulphurous.

a few weeks/months later it becomes established fact that that whisky has a major sulphur issue.

another example: many people who register extreme sulphur phobias happily drink highland park expressions. in my opinion, it is the very rare highland park expression that doesn't register something on the nose or palate that falls into a very, very broad spectrum of aromas or flavours under the sulphur umbrella. the highland park 1998 that i drank last night, for example, has a faint hint of rubber tyres on the nose, which goes away very quickly. the actual aroma itself might not register with most sulphur-averse people as sulphur-related, but once the words "rubber tyres" are mentioned it will probably trigger the phobia even among people whose actual aversion is to the gunpowder end of the sulphur spectrum.

as mr. t h suggests, it's similar to what happened to bowmore. just saying "floral" or "lavender" was/is like saying "highly, offensively perfumed"--not to everyone, but to most people who'd picked up on the fwp meme.

[Douglas]

I think it is useful to have reviews by someone who is so sensitive to sulphur. I seem to have a low threshold for at least some sulphur notes and I would prefer to know in advance for bottles that interest me.

I am not really so bothered about Jim's scores these days. However, it would be nice if he always said what sulphur characteristics he had picked up as some bother me more than others.

[JethroTull]

Yeah, they used sherry butts.

Finding myself shaking my head at some of the reviews of sherry cask whiskies but then I'm obviously not as sensitive to any sulphur as Mr Murray, even though I'm quite capable of telling what a struck match smells like.

He's right in one way - the smell of rubber/sulphur is disgusting but Jim Murray is like the wine snob played by Donald Pleasance, in Columbo, and he gets rubber/sulphur where most of us get none.

[Pudge72]

GWP....

???? I do know what FWP means for older Bowmore bottles...but GWP is a new one for me...

[mongo]

GWP....

???? I do know what FWP means for older Bowmore bottles...but GWP is a new one for me...

germans apparently enjoy sulphur flavours and aromas in their whisky. mr. th is therefore saying that sulphur and controversy about sulphur are kind of like german whore perfume (both in terms of reality and some amount of over-reaction).