SMWS - becoming a rip off ?

[Exciseman]

So, up until recently, what do I get for my £45 per year membership:-

(a) the right to BUY often overpriced whiskies from the list/website;
(b) the right to BUY tickets to tastings;
(c) the right to BUY drams in the club bar.

Basically, I'm paying for the opportunity to buy things from a large corporate.

Many independent bottlers and retailers sell more reasonably priced single cask bottlings.
Many organisations run as good value tastings (eg Nickolls & Perks).
There are many bars in London and Edinburgh that have excellent selections of whisky.

None of these charge me an extra fee just for the privilege of doing business with them !!!!!!

[C57]

Don't renew then

[Exciseman]

I was hoping to provoke adult debate, but instead get the bl**ding obvious lol. But seriously, the prices of bottlings - especially those more that say 15 year old - seem to have risen pretty steeply. Do they really justify such prices? Are SMWS bottlings actually that much better than those from other IBs? Or is it just a large corporate taking advantage of members' loyalty?

[C57]

That is a serious if obvious response.
If you don't think you're getting value for money, don't renew.

Personally I continue to renew because I do think I get value for money.
It's a matter of personal choice. When I think their prices have got out of kilter, I'll stop renewing. I don't yet

[C57]

And by the way, you don't need to resort to veiled abuse in these forums - not if you're an "adult" - "lol"

[ras mazunga]

Only tried a few samples and they were very good.

Maybe it is a good idea to split a membership with some friends.

[Yello to Mello]

I'm unfamiliar with it but what did you get before?

Was it the same and the prices were better in comparison?

Perhaps it is growing fast and think they can get away with those things. When there was less members perhaps it was extremely good.

[Exciseman]

As a member, you can visit the club's premises at London and Edinburgh with guests. But any organised tasting that you attend, drink that you order from the bar, or food that you eat in the restaurant is at commercial prices.

Plus, it should be remembered that many members live miles from these venues and so can seldom if ever attend them (without more expense). Are such members - like myself - subsidising such venues for the locals?

I hope not. One assumes that these premises are self-financing from the till receipts. If they're not, that's down to poor management given where they're located.

As a member, you can also buy single cask single malts from the now monthly list (now a cut down folded single sheet, as opposed to the old booklet). Such bottlings aren't cheap. They're charged at commercial rates (and arguably then some).

There is a free magazine from time to time. It's lately been much better than previously. But a lot of it's covert advertising for Society bottlings.

Personally, I could live with a one-off refundable membership fee - like the Wine Society.

But, especially for those members miles from a club premises, £450 a decade for just the right to buy at commercial rates is surely wrong.

Why not a dual membership tariff. A lower rate for members whose only interest is bottlings. And a higher rate for members who wish to use Society premises?

A bit like off-peak and on-peak gym memberships perhaps.

[LeoDLion]

I was a member here in the US years back. And I did bought several sms bottles. One day I have a guest and I opened a bottle of Benrinnes I bought from sms. It was a harsh tasting single malt and I was embarassed. I dont remember how much I paid but all sms bottles are not cheap. I did not renew my membership. I thought they were overpriced and the selection was awful.

[mlawrenson]

I was at Greville St. yesterday and today, and there have been...mutterings. Not about the whisky, more about the printed matter eg. the bottling list ('no room to write my tasting notes now') and Unfiltered ('like an in-flight magazine').

[Mark C]

I didn't realise it was cheaper to renew. I assumed it was £100 every year. I might join up this year, then...

[newbie]

I find it strange that you have to pay to become a member to purchase SMWS bottlings. Surely it would make better commercial sense to sell to everyone? Is this to maintain exclusivity perhaps? They are missing out on a huge potential market of consumers who don't live near an SMSW branch and who can't/have no wish to make use of all the benefits offered by SMSW membership. If they had a reduced rate membership for people who only wish to purchase bottles I'm sure they'll attract many more members

[Exciseman]

I'll freely confess that I've only ever visited the London club rooms on mid-week lunchtimes and/or afteroons. Usually, it's an absolute 'graveyard'. I don't think that I've ever seen more than about 5 people in at lunch-time.
So, I'm guessing that it's not financially viable as a stand-alone bar and that remote members are paying for the few.

[C57]

I've been many times on weekday evenings and it's always been pretty busy.

[Exciseman]

That's good to hear. It's a shame for any venue to be under utilised.

I do still think that a two-tier membership would be fairer though. Less for 'remote' members who just wished to purchase the occasional bottle (although I'm still uncertain why they should have to pay for such a right). More for those who wish to avail themselves of club facilities.

[C57]

I think that's a very good idea too.
I'll email it to one of the directors

[newbie]

I would be happy with a reduced rate membership just to buy bottles (I would prefer no fee but thats unlikely to happen). Unless they open a branch here in S.Yorkshire!

[C57]

I would be happy with a reduced rate membership just to buy bottles (I would prefer no fee but thats unlikely to happen). Unless they open a branch here in S.Yorkshire!

SMWS have looked at this idea but it's not as simple as it sounds.

Here's some of the comment:

The Society carries out tastings all over the UK and this benefits many members who live outside of Edinburgh and London. It is often those members who live outside the main areas who use the flats in Leith the most. We also have the scenario of those who live outside Edinburgh and London (eg in Glasgow) who commute regularly to the city centre and will use the facilities more often than someone on the outskirts of Edinburgh! Finally, when a country member did use a venue we would have to charge an additional fee at the door. At the moment this would be impractical and require further investment in IT. In other words, it is still under consideration. (If it did happen, it would probably mean a further increase for those using our venues!)

Now you could argue that it would be the member's choice whether they chose a higher level of membership because they visit the rooms often, or use the flats.
But they do have a point about the extra IT costs involved in having two-tier membership and then having to charge extra at the door for entrance - and indeed when booking a tasting or whatever over the phone.
Once you were a Tier 2 member would you be happy to be turned away at the door because you'd only bpought "bottle-buying" membership? Or would you want the facility to pay a supplement on entry?
If the latter, they would need to invest in software modifications.

Anyway, that's the current position but, as they say, it isn't yet ruled out.

[Exciseman]

Oh, come on! This is the third millenium. The new dawn of IT. It might cost a bob or two to set up, but hundreds of organisations have two-tier membership.

I don't really buy into the bit about tastings at third-party venues either. Simply make these a profit centre in their own right. Any member can attend if they pay the going rate.

Then, Tier 1 is "all facility use" and Tier 2 is "right to buy bottles only".

Cadenheads and the like don't charge any membership fee for the right to buy their single cask bottlings! What makes SMWS different?

[C57]

Cadenheads don't do flats, tasting rooms etc.

I'm just passing on the message.
BTW, I do a lot of IT estimating and it doesn't come cheap to modify. It's certainly cheaper to do it at the start than to amend later.

[Nick Brown]

I don't think the SMWS is a rip off. The main benefits are: access to quality controlled bottles at reasonable prices and access to society venues and events. The bottlings have gone up in price in th past couple of years - but so have the other IB bottlings. And the quality of the bottlings is consistently good now when, a couple of years ago, it might have been more hit and miss. And some of the bottlings are very unusual - where else have you seen IB Glenmorangie?

The venues are great for those who use them, but there are (expensive) tasting events held elsewhere. The events seem to have dropped down to four whiskies from five, which I think makes them look like questionable value, but I can believe there is effort and expense involved in setting them up and they are good fun.

Of course, many members don't attend events, visit venues or buy bottles. They do get poor value and do end up susidising the rest of us. But that's their choice.

[C57]

that's their choice.

Precisely so

[Nick Brown]

And at the end of the day, the SMWS is a club, not a shop. It shouldn't have to charge members only for the services they use.

[Exciseman]

It started out, if memory serves, as a true club. A group of friends pooling their resources to buy casks.
Now, it's an increasingly commercialised profit-centre for Glenmorangie.

Some members are affluent (and so can bear travel costs) or live near to club rooms in Edinburgh and London. I'm sure that such members make really good use of the venues.

However, there are thousands of members whose personal circumstances mean that they will NEVER visit a club room. It is these members who are being asked to pay £45 per year just to place orders.

[C57]

Which they don't have to do....